Nativity Fast

Euthymios · Post by **Euthymios** » Sun 6 January 2008 5:48 am

I apologize for all of this, but I am not in my right mind right now. Everytime I turn around we have these fasts and they are killing me. Orthodoxy is SO hard. I feel like giving-up and renouncing it sometimes because it never produces any consoling fruit in my life. It places so many rules and regulations on us. It seems like a dark system of bondage. God is virtually impossible to please and satisfy in Orthodoxy. Nothing we do is good enough unless we are saints. And after all the hell I have been through I am not a saint. What else is required? Evetything I do and suffer for the truth is never good enough for God -- so it seems.

And we can't be forgiven of sins unless we confess everysingle sin in detail, according to Fr. Seraphim Alexiev. Tell this to someone with obsessive compulsive disorder. This is an absolute nightmare.

Orthodoxy seems to have accentuated my psychological problems over the years. I wasn't in this bad of shape as a protestant. Orthodoxy is an obsessive complulsive religion and it has never helped me with OCD at all. In seems to increase it.

Jean-Serge · Post by **Jean-Serge** » Sun 6 January 2008 10:24 am

Ill people of course fast only as their body allow fasting... For instance, pregnant women do not fast... If you really need proteins for your health and that you cannot find it in another meal and the consequences are critical, than eat meat... I however notice that your vision of the fast in wrong. Fast is not a punishment, it is a way a getting rid of passions...

Moreover your sentence : "God is virtually impossible to please and satisfy in Orthodoxy. Nothing we do is good enough unless we are saints." is tipically catholic. It hints at an infuriated God like in catholic theology. It is not orthodox at all... By the way, the Saints know themselves they were sinners and the sainter you are, the sainter you see your sins...

In order to be forgiven, you do not have to tell your sins, otherwise, confession would be a simple ist of sins. You first have to repent, whis is leaving sin and those you sin with... This is the true repentance, not simply a list of previous sins...

May God help you with your health and spirituality.

timotheos_tdh · Post by **timotheos_tdh** » Sun 6 January 2008 2:24 pm

Euthymios,

I am sorry to hear of your health issues and seeming lack of attention from the priests whom you've tried to contact. Perhaps you are expecting too much of yourself, and as Jean-Serge said, in certain cases (which yours may be one) people are advised quite cleary NOT to avoid certain foods which normally are avoided in fasting. I understand your depressing and anxiety over this, and that is why I again know that you must find for yourself a spiritual father. I realize you are trying, so don't think I'm blaming you. However, once you find for yourself a spiritual father, I think you will find the issue of fasts a lot less burdensome, and more as they are meant to be viewed, to help us free ourselves of passions by this ascetic practice. I don't know why even a priest on this Forum could not be relied upon to give advice to you if you have no other option. It has been said that it is absolutely essential to have a spiritual father, that one cannot be Orthodox without it. Yet in these latter days it can often be so hard to find one. A spiritual father, or even just a priest to whom you can talk and who can give you guidance, will help to see what is right for you and how to practice Holy Orthodoxy. I am also one with OCD and anxiety (and several physical health issues as well), so I can relate very much to your problem. With the guidance of my spiritual father, I have not become obsessed or anxious when it comes to Orthodoxy, as his understanding and compassion has greatly aided me. You must pray especially to the Most Holy Theotokos, I think, and I pray you will find the help and guidance you are needing. Please don't feel that you need to give up on Holy Orthodoxy, even though it can be hard sometimes. God does not give us beyond what we are capable of bearing, we must just learn to trust in Him fully and completely. My prayers are with you, dear Euthymios! May Our Merciful Lord have mercy on you and come to your aid!

Timothy the newly-illumined

Euthymios · Post by **Euthymios** » Sun 6 January 2008 4:31 pm

I don't encourage anyone to have an economia for meat during a fast. There are other ways to get adequate amounts of protein through plant and non-meat sources. My problem is that I'm not an expert on vegan and vegetarian recipes. And it seems like going without sufficient amounts of protein increases my psychological problems of depression, etc. Social phobic elements also seem to emerge. I've always been like this but these big fasts seem to accentuate the symptoms. Perhaps I'm borderline hypoglycemic. I don't know. Perhaps I just don't eat right. I try. I don't eat junk food and I get lots of fruits, vegetables, beans, rice, lentiles, bread, etc.

I think it is possible to get enough protein, etc from non-meat products though. I once spent some time with a friend of mine who was a vegan all his life. His family knew how to make good non-meat/non-dairy meals and I did fine.

I've had a very hard time lately, especially durng this fast. I have not been myself. I have fallen. I ask everyone to forgive me for the things I said and forgive me if I have ever sinned against you in word, deed or thought. Thank you.

Euthymios · Post by **Euthymios** » Mon 7 January 2008 3:20 am

"In order to be forgiven, you do not have to tell your sins, otherwise, confession would be a simple ist of sins. You first have to repent, whis is leaving sin and those you sin with... This is the true repentance, not simply a list of previous sins..."

My Response: I've never heard that before. If that is true, what is the purpose of Orthodox confession and absolution? Read Seraphim Alexiev and his book on Confession. I think its called "The Mystery of Repentance."

Jean-Serge · Post by **Jean-Serge** » Mon 7 January 2008 5:56 am

As regards Confession, I suggest you to read the Manual of Confession by Saint Nicodemus the Hagiorite; it has been published by uncutmountain.com... Of course you have to tell your sins, but the essence of confession is not telling one's sins simply and after that committing them again. The main thing is in stopping you sinful behavior...

As regards, the protein question, if there is a medical impact and that above all, you are not an expert in vegan plates, I suggest you to look for documentation as regards vegan plate, try them, see the effects and if it is medically bad, keep on eating meat as long as you do not find a good situation. If no vegetable suit you, maybe you could eat shellfish (that can be eaten during fast) or animals with cold blood( it seems that alligators, snakes can be eaten) or eat fish... instead of meat...

Euthymios · Post by **Euthymios** » Mon 7 January 2008 9:31 pm

"If no vegetable suit you, maybe you could eat shellfish (that can be eaten during fast) or animals with cold blood( it seems that alligators, snakes can be eaten) or eat fish... instead of meat..."

My Response: Are you kidding? I can't afford to travel to Africa or Australia every fast to round-up snake and alligator meat. And what is shellfish? This is never mentioned on my fast calendars. If it is allowed why don't they mention it.