1054 Schism and Intercommunion

Helen · Post by **Helen** » Sun 23 March 2008 11:42 pm

None of this makes sense at all.

You're quite right. It doesn't make any sense.

Evfimy · Post by **Evfimy** » Mon 24 March 2008 2:35 am

It seems to me that God would have short-circuted the clairvoyant line to Elder Ephraim the moment he became a "heretic."

Is God blind that He didn't see Ephraim join the GOA?

It is highly unlikely that God would have allowed a conduit of His grace (Elder Ephraim) to be duped and deceived by joining a graceless jurisdiction.

And it is highly unliklely that God would not have told his spiritual father, Elder Joseph of the impending apostasy of Ephraim, and warned him.

Traditionalism does not seem to have any credibility because they are a house divided against itself. They cannot stand.

And what are Sts Raphael, Nicholas and Irene doing appearing to the alleged "apostate" Orthodox people in dreams and visions in Lesvos in the 1960's?

As far as I could tell, in none of their messages did they ever tell anyone "oh by the way, you need to become a traditionalist because the ecumenical patriarchate is without grace."

I read their whole story. They never said this once.

Jean-Serge · Post by **Jean-Serge** » Mon 24 March 2008 5:24 am

Evfimy wrote:
When I communed in a Serbian church, I felt the exact same power of grace as I always did with the pre-Moscow ROCA church.

These words shows that you do not have a good knowledge of orthodox praxis. The truth is not based on feelings, like "oh I felt something good"... This is psychology and may also be deception from the evil... The Fathers always warned about such sensations of grace, holiness and so on... I think you should think quietly about all this, in your room, and pray, out of internet forums...

Papoutsis1 · Post by **Papoutsis1** » Mon 24 March 2008 11:41 am

Evfimy

Please do yourself a great service and stop listening to us and contact Father Ephreim. He is at St Athony's Monastery in Arizona. Find him on the internet, contact him and talk to the Blessed Elder. All things will be cleared once you talk to him, not to us.

Please Evfimy do this for yourself and for the good of your soul.

God Bless and love

Peter

Evfimy · Post by **Evfimy** » Mon 24 March 2008 11:50 am

Jean-Serge wrote:
Evfimy wrote:
When I communed in a Serbian church, I felt the exact same power of grace as I always did with the pre-Moscow ROCA church.

These words shows that you do not have a good knowledge of orthodox praxis. The truth is not based on feelings, like "oh I felt something good"... This is psychology and may also be deception from the evil... The Fathers always warned about such sensations of grace, holiness and so on... I think you should think quietly about all this, in your room, and pray, out of internet forums...

No, it shows you have never experienced the grace of the Holy Spirit. As Father Seraphim said, a persons develops a sense of what is Orthodox and what is not.

After I commune, I receive tremendous spiritual strength and joy and a deep sense of piety that lasts for months.

I have been Orthodox for years. I know what grace is and is not.

People like you resist the grace of God because of sadistic psychopaths like Ignatius Brianchaninov who taught that everything was delusion unless it is thoroughly negative.

Kosmas · Post by **Kosmas** » Mon 24 March 2008 11:56 am

Dear Evfimy,

"These inconsistencies don't add up."

"I think it is the obsession with control, pride and megalomania that these people are tearing Orthodoxy apart."

May I alter your observation a bit saying "we" people are tearing Orthodoxy apart. While we are arguing and labeling Orthodox Christians with harsh words like schismatic, heretic, and apostate, the Enemy is gaining ground.

There have been many errors made through out the life of the Church (ex. Iconoclasm) and sooner or later were corrected (ex. 7th Ecumenical Council). Now new errors have manifested around 1920-1924 and have not been resolved by the Orthodox in general.
It is perhaps the most dangerous time that Orthodox Christians have every faced. While our stalwart predecessors were being persecuted through violence they kept their faith. Today "we" are failing not because a sword or machine gun is pointed at us but rather "our" Ego is weakening our resolve. The Ego or the dreaded "I am something more than a sinner."
It is this way the Enemy has deceived many of us be they kleriki /i, liaki/i, or even monastic. According the Devil, "It is o.k. to verbally attack your neighbor" or "It is blessed you to verbally attack your fellow baptized Orthodox Christian."
We must stop attacking our fellow servants to overcome the next obstacles together.

P.S. I have heard from a smarter Orthodox Christian that humility is necessary to evade the traps set by the Enemy. My Godmother has said the Lord Jesus Christ is the best Teacher.

Evfimy · Post by **Evfimy** » Mon 24 March 2008 12:42 pm

I submit the problems facing contemporary Orthodoxies (there is no one Orthodox Church but several), is rank disobedience to anything authoritative, pride, and ignorance. And there also seems to be this obsession with power.

Untill they learn obedience, humility and get educated on the teachings of the Fathers and Councils regarding the primacy and authority of Rome and the other patriarchates, these issues will never be resolved.