Serbia and ROCOR

Discussion about the various True Orthodox Churches around the world including current events. Subforums in other langauges, primarily English on the main forum.


Moderator: Mark Templet

User avatar
ania
Member
Posts: 297
Joined: Tue 15 April 2003 4:21 pm
Contact:

Post by ania »

anastasios wrote:

1)
3) A Serbian student was sent by his bishop to Jordanville two or three years ago. Last year he came to St. Vladimir's to study. I know St. Vlad's will let anyone study there (like me!) but I doubt Jordanville would admit people not in communion with them to study there...?
anastasios

Actually, 2 Serbs are currently studying at Jordanville. One is the son of a very prominent Serbian priest in Chicago, who also studied in Jordanville. I remember the seminarian who's at St. Vlad's, really nice guy.
There also over they years have been students from the OCA, and even from the MP, (my brother-in-law included, now that he lives in the states, he goes to a ROCOR church). They usually go to their local bishops for permision, the bishop contacts the seminary, and they work out the details. From what I've seen, they've always been able to take Communion & paticipate in the alter, as they get a connonical release from their jurisdiction, & when they go home, they get connonically released back.

Ania

rebecca
Member
Posts: 114
Joined: Sat 19 July 2003 12:21 am

Post by rebecca »

ania wrote:

I remember the seminarian who's at St. Vlad's, really nice guy.

If we're talking about the same person, he told me that he left Jordanville because he couldn't take all the Russian. (Don't they have all of their classes in Russian?) It would be nice if ROCOR had an English language seminary.

Justin Kissel

Post by Justin Kissel »

I hear that there's something in the works (for English speakers), though it won't be a formal seminary. And there are, of course, other routes to be taken (e.g., the old fashioned way of learning personally from a priest). :) I agree totally with you though, an English language seminary would be wonderful. /\

User avatar
Methodius
Member
Posts: 254
Joined: Tue 25 February 2003 5:50 pm

Post by Methodius »

By a decision of the Synod of the Russian Orthodox Church of December
28, 1998, a Podvorye of the Moscow Patriarchate was formed in the city
of Bari, Italy, for the spiritual nourishment of the local
Russian-speaking community and the numerous pilgrims who visit this
city to venerate the honourable relics of the holy hierarch and
wonderworker Nicholas, as well as for the support of working contacts
with religious, state and social circles in Italy. The co-worker of
the Department of external ecclesiastical relations, the priest
Vladimir Kuchumov, was appointed as superior.

From the beginning of the activity of the Podvorye, it became known
that in the lower church of the former Russian home for receiving
pilgrims, which is partly used, in accordance with an agreement, by
the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad (ROCA), there was serving a
clergyman of the Serbian Orthodox Church.

His Holiness Patriarch Alexis II of Moscow and All Russia wrote to His
Holiness Patriarch Pavle of Serbia, asking him to clarify the
situation that had been created, which violated the canonical
structure of the Orthodox Church, insofar as the pastoral service of a
clergyman of the Serbian Patriarchate was taking place in a
schismatic ecclesiastical structure having no communion with any Local
Orthodox Church.

His Holiness Patriarch Pavle of Serbia sent a return letter to His
Holiness Patriarch Alexis II of Moscow and All Russia, in which he
expressed the position of the Sacred Synod of the Serbian Orthodox
Church in relation to the schismatics. In particular he declared the
following:

"- The Sacred Hierarchical Synod of our Holy Church has forbidden
their Graces, the Diocesan Bishops, to give any kind of canonical
permission to priests to depart for the jurisdiction of the
above-mentioned 'church'. We hope that they will stick to this.

"We are sorry that such a thing could have taken place, and we hope
that this incident will in no way spoil the age-old good brotherly
relations that have existed throughout the course of our united
history.

"In this hope, we beseech Your Holiness and the Most Holy Russian
Orthodox Church, which is so dear to us, [to forgive] our oversight,
which took place in the city of Bari, and not to consider it to be a
sin. We assure you that such an unpleasant incident will not be
repeated.

"Your Holiness knows the brotherly and Christian relations that the
Serbian Orthodox Church and people had towards Metropolitan Anthony
(Khrapovitsky) of Kiev and the bishops, monks and Russian people who
came to us in flight from the violence of the communists in 1918. This
brotherly relationship continued only until, after the fall of the
communists, the representatives of the Russian Church Abroad started
to spread their priesthood onto the territory of Russia, thereby
violating the canonical authority of the Russian patriarchate. The
Sacred Synod has more than once directed its protests to the
leadership of the Russian Church Abroad in America and demanded that
it cease from such actions since they are anticanonical and worthy of
every condemnation."

"Information Bulletin" of the Department of External Ecclesiastical
Relations of the Moscow Patriarchate (N 3, 2000, pp. 51-52)

Anastasios
Sr Member
Posts: 886
Joined: Thu 7 November 2002 11:40 pm
Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOC-Archbishop Kallinikos
Location: Raleigh, NC
Contact:

Post by Anastasios »

The Serbs are obviously fibbing to everyone to save face. I apologize for this blunt comment to my Serbian friends and acquaintences. I am so upset by the doublespeak.

I sent emails to 2 of the many Serbian dioceses in the USA and was told "YES we are in communion with ROCOR, they are GREAT!"

I know of ROCOR priests transferred to the SP, and of SP priests transferred to ROCOR.

On the other hand Justin gets emails saying "NO we are not in communion with them!"

I talked to a ROCOR monk the other day who said, "yes, of course we are in communion with them!"

So what the HECK is going on??? Why does Serbia tell ROCOR "yes" but the MP "no"? Trying to save face?! Outrageous.

anastasios

Disclaimer: Many older posts were made before my baptism and thus may not reflect an Orthodox point of view.
Please do not message me with questions about the forum or moderation requests. Jonathan Gress (jgress) will be able to assist you.
Please note that I do not subscribe to "Old Calendar Ecumenism" and believe that only the Synod of Archbishop Kallinikos is the canonical GOC of Greece. I do believe, however, that we can break down barriers and misunderstandings through prayer and discussion on forums such as this one.

User avatar
尼古拉前执事
Archon
Posts: 5126
Joined: Thu 24 October 2002 7:01 pm
Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Non-Phylitist
Location: United States of America
Contact:

Post by 尼古拉前执事 »

Also of note is that at http://www.euphrosynoscafe.com/forum/vi ... php?t=1333 Bishop Gabriel says that the ROCOR is NOT in communion with the Serbians or the Jerusalem Patriarch, which is odd.

Hexapsalms
Jr Member
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu 16 September 2004 10:24 am

Post by Hexapsalms »

This sounds like some Serbians (taking their leading from the MP church?) is spreading some disinformation by saying that ROCOR isn't canonical because they fled the persecutions in Russia.

I had mentioned in another thread how a meddlesome Lutheran (who also lectures around town as an "expert" on Russian Orthodoxy) visited our parish last Sunday touting more of his very ignorant "take" on Orthodoxy, and wanting our seal of approval on it. He has been the Moscow several times and evidently has been somewhat courted by the MP who also told him that ROCOR isn't the real Russian church because the bishops fled. He wouldn't listen to my explanation saying that Patriarch Tikhon sent those bishops out of the country to protect Russian Orthodoxy because he knew the Bosheviks were out to destroy the Church entirely.

But now this is forgotten. The pressure to unite must be very strong if such lies must be propogated to weaken the concerns of ROCOR.

Post Reply