Moderator: Mark Templet
Pensees wrote:I don't believe in compromising the Orthodox faith for the sake of ecumenism, but neither do I believe in seperating ourselves from other Orthodox Christians.
Peace.
Canon XV of the 1st & 2nd:
"The rules laid down with reference to Presbyters and Bishops and Metropolitans are still more applicable to Patriarchs. So that in case any Presbyter or Bishop or Metropolitan dares to secede or apostatize from the communion of his own Patriarch, and fails to mention the latter's name in accordance with custom duly fixed and ordained, in the divine Mystagogy, but, before a conciliar verdict has been pronounced and has passed judgement against him, creates a schism, the holy Synod has decreed that this person shall be held an alien to every priestly function if only he be convicted of having committed this transgression of the law. Accordingly, these rules have been sealed and ordained as respecting persons who under the pretext of charges against their own presidents stand aloof, and create a schism, and disrupt the union of the Church. But as for those persons, on the other hand, who, on account of some heresy condemned by holy Synods, or Fathers, withdrawing themselves from communion with their president, who, that is to say, is preaching the heresy publicly, and teaching it bareheaded in church, such persons not only are not subject to any canonical penalty on account of their having walled themselves off from any and all communion with the one called a Bishop before any conciliar or synodical verdict has been rendered, but, on the contrary, they shall be deemed worthy to enjoy the honor which befits them among Orthodox Christians. For they have defied, not Bishops, but pseudo-bishops and pseudo-teachers; and they have not sundered the union of the Church with any schism, but, on the contrary, have been sedulous to rescue the Church from schisms and divisions."
Ecumenists are not Orthodox Christians. They are heretics.
How do you know that the heretic isn't the one who creates disunity and fragmentation by separating himself from the Church? One can disagree with the actions of certain hierarchs, while still remaining within his particular jurisdiction, just as one can disagree with his king but still love his country.
What about how Father Seraphim, who while disagreeing with certain leaders within ROCOR, chose longsuffering over separation?:
"Super-Correctness" - Chapter 63 from Father Seraphim Rose: His Life and Works
http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/fsr_63.aspx
From what I've read of Eastern Orthodox clergymen who participate in the Ecumenical movement, they do so to teach Protestants and Catholics about Orthodoxy, rather than to compromise their Orthodoxy. They may be misled in doing this, but that doesn't make them heretics.
There are four Orthodox congregations in the town I live, none of them being Old Calendarist. Are you saying that I really have no Orthodox church to choose from, and therefore shouldn't go to church at all?
Peace.
Pensees wrote:How do you know that the heretic isn't the one who creates disunity and fragmentation by separating himself from the Church? One can disagree with the actions of certain hierarchs, while still remaining within his particular jurisdiction, just as one can disagree with his king but still love his country.
What about how Father Seraphim, who while disagreeing with certain leaders within ROCOR, chose longsuffering over separation?:
"Super-Correctness" - Chapter 63 from Father Seraphim Rose: His Life and Works
http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/fsr_63.aspxFrom what I've read of Eastern Orthodox clergymen who participate in the Ecumenical movement, they do so to teach Protestants and Catholics about Orthodoxy, rather than to compromise their Orthodoxy. They may be misled in doing this, but that doesn't make them heretics.
There are four Orthodox congregations in the town I live, none of them being Old Calendarist. Are you saying that I really have no Orthodox church to choose from, and therefore shouldn't go to church at all?
Peace.
I'm not postulating my own opinions. It doesn't matter what you or I think about the issue personally. It matters what the Fathers of the Church say. I've backed up all my arguments with references to history and Church teaching. You're just making logical deductions. The Church doesn't teach what seems logical to us.
Pensees wrote:Aside from celebrating Christmas on December 25, for the sake of converts, my congregation follows the Old Calendar. I don't believe in compromising the Orthodox faith for the sake of ecumenism, but neither do I believe in seperating ourselves from other Orthodox Christians.
Peace.
We all celebrate Christmas on December 25th...
