Saying Non-Chalced. are Orthodox does not = branch theory

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Daniel
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Re: "official"???

Post by Daniel »

mwoerl wrote:

and-i might ask again-if the "World Orthodoxy" jurisdictions are ALREADY without grace, how does any of these unions/agreements/intercommunion/recognizing marriages of the monophysites have any importance whatsoever? or do these things make them MORE without grace? you know, it would seem you can't have it both ways.......... i sincerely hope this question of mine does not offend anyone on here; this question has crosssed my mind from time to time-i am asking it seriously and sincerely. i have not really ever made up my mind on that question-some times i have thought, "no, they do not have grace," sometimes i have thought, "yes, they do have grace," sometimes i have thought "i do not know if they do or not..." but, again, if THEY DO NOT HAVE GRACE-with all that it implies-means to me that further concern about anything they do or do not do is basically much ado about nothing, as well as a waste of time and efforts. so, let me ask again-if "World Orthodoxy" is, inceed, without grace, why are they any different to us than the Jehovah's Witnesses?

michael woerl

I think it basically has to do with mis-representing Orthodoxy.

Those who fully embrace (or even partially) Ecumenism with out a doubt preach another Gospel than what's been give us, and thusly remove themselves from the Chruch through their heterodoxy. The concern is that they will also lead other [weaker] people way from the True Church. Or that those who may want to convert will only go half way, so-to-speak, and wind up accepting the false religion of the Ecumenists, and not pure spring of Orthodoxy. These people pervert the Truth and then those who ignorantly follow them.

Again, the concern is that they mis-represent Orthodoxy. I don't want any one thinking that when I say I'm Orthodox that accept the 'Mysteries/Sacriments' of other 'churches', or that the Luthern 'church' down the street is just as good as going to an Orthodox Church, or even the possibility that other religions are acceptable.

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尼古拉前执事
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I think this is what OOD was speaking of ...

Post by 尼古拉前执事 »

To All Our Children,
Protected By God,
Both Clergy and Laity of
The Holy See of Antioch

Beloved:

You must have heard of the continuous efforts for decades by our Apostolic See with the sister Orthodox Syriac Church to foster a better knowledge and understanding of both churches whether on the dogmatic or pastoral level. Those attempts are nothing but a natural expression that the Orthodox Churches, and especially those within the Holy See of Antioch, are called to articulate the will of the Lord that all may be one, just as the Son is One with the Heavenly Father.

It is our duty and that of our brothers in the Syriac Church to witness to Christ in our Eastern area where He was born, preached, suffered, was buried and rose from the dead, ascended into heaven, and sent down His Holy and Life-Giving Spirit upon His holy apostles.

All the meetings, the fellowship, the oral and written declarations meant that we belong to One Faith even though history had brought forward the phase of our division more than the aspects of our unity.

All this has called upon our Holy Synod of Antioch to initiate a quick desire for our Church in the See of Antioch, for a unity that preserves for each Church its original Eastern heritage whereby the one Antiochian Church benefits from its sister Church and profits from its rich traditions, literature and holy rituals.

Every endeavour and pursuit in the direction of coming together of the two Churches is based on the conviction that this orientation is from the Holy Spirit, and it will give the Eastern Orthodox image more brightness and elegance that has lacked for centuries before.

Therefore, the Holy Synod of Antioch saw fit to translate the brotherly approachment relationship between the two Churches, the Antiochian Orthodox and the Syriac Orthodox for the edification of their faithful wherever they happen to be.

The Holy Synod of Antioch has decided the following matters:

1) The complete and mutual respect between the two Churches for their rituals, spirituality, heritage and holy fathers; and the full protection of both the Antiochian and Syriac liturgical practices.

2) The incorporation of the fathers of both Churches and their heritage in general in the Christian education curriculum and theological teaching; and the exchange of theological professors and students.

3) The refraining from accepting members of one Church in the membership of the other whatever the reasons might be.

4) Organizing meetings of both Synods whenever need and necessity may arise.

5) Leaving every Church as a reference for its members in all matters pertaining to marriage, divorce, adoption etc.

6) If two bishops of the two different Churches meet for a spiritual service the one with the majority of the people will generally preside. But if the service is for the sacrament of holy matrimony the bishop of the bridegroom will preside.

7) Whatever has been previously mentioned does not apply to the concelebration among the bishops in the Divine Liturgy.

8) Whatever has been said in number six applies to the clergy of both Churches.

9) If one priest of either Church happens to be in a certain area he will serve the Divine Mysteries for the members of both Churches including the Divine Liturgy and the sacrament of holy matrimony. The same priest will keep an independent record for both Churches and transmit the registration of the members of the sister Church to its spiritual authority.

10) If two priests of both Churches happen to be in a certain community they will take turns, and in case they concelebrate the one with the majority of the people will preside.

11) If a bishop from one Church and a priest from the sister Church happen to concelebrate, presiding naturally belongs to the bishop even though being in the community of the priest on the condition that there are people of both Churches.

12) Ordinations into the Holy Orders are performed by the spiritual authorities on candidates in every respective Church prefereably in the presence of the brothers from the other sister Church.

13) Godfathers, Godmothers and witnesses in the sacrament of holy matrimony are allowed to be chosen from the members of both Churches without any discrimination.

14) In all mutual celebrations the first clergyman in ordination will preside over the ceremony.

15) All organizations from both Churches will co-operate in all matters whether educational, cultural and social for the enrichment of the brotherly spirit.

We promise you on this occasion to continue strengthening our relationship with the sister Church and all other Churches for all to become one community under one Shepherd.

From http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/antioch_mono.htm

Of note we have had posters here who left the Antiochian Church because of this practice, upon confronting the priest he said the bishop and metropolitan make him commune monophysites.

OrthodoxyOrDeath

Post by OrthodoxyOrDeath »

Thank you Nicholas.

Michael, don't think this document is an anomaly. There are more. And not only are there more, they have demonstrated force with action - there can be no denying "communion" exists between the Ecumenist church and the Monophysite church. It continues to grow and strengthen each day.

It is no longer I who has to prove anything, it is you who would have to show otherwise. :)

And why is it important to show the graceless hulk called new-calendarism is even a darker void? Because there are still people who are living a life of denial. Of course there will always be many such people, but I believe there are still honest ones who just need that one last push.

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