Genuine Orthodox Church of Greece

Discussion about the various True Orthodox Churches around the world including current events. Subforums in other langauges, primarily English on the main forum.


Moderator: Mark Templet

Post Reply
1937 Miraculous Cross
Member
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat 25 December 2004 2:47 am
Location: Austin, Texas
Contact:

Post by 1937 Miraculous Cross »

To take a slightly different angle on what Abp. Chrysostomos is quoted on in an earlier post, from the Matthewite perspective, which of the Floro-Acacian groups does one dialogue with? Kiousite synod, Lamian synod, the Auxentians (HOCNA, etc), the various independent bishops, the Cyprianites???

We have our own problems with the Gregorians who split in 1995, but they are dying off and hopefully won't consecrate more bishops. Nonetheless, I'm hopeful to know that at least in mind, I hear that some of our bishops are wanting to dialogue as well with the Floro-Acacians. I would presume with the Kiousite synod.

Nectarios

User avatar
Nektarios
Jr Member
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun 28 November 2004 4:39 pm

Post by Nektarios »

I have been reading that book "The Struggle Against Ecumenism" I was looking more toward some thing specifically towards the GOC of Greece and Archbishop Florina.

In Christ
Nektarios

P.S. I forgot I had that book untill you mentioned it, I bought it at my Antioch Parish.

1937 Miraculous Cross
Member
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat 25 December 2004 2:47 am
Location: Austin, Texas
Contact:

Post by 1937 Miraculous Cross »

Dear Nektarios,

You wrote:

I have been reading that book "The Struggle Against Ecumenism" I was looking more toward some thing specifically towards the GOC of Greece and Archbishop Florina.

This book is probably the best book available in English about the Former Metropolitan of Florina, Bp. Chrysostom. Etna has a slightly older book about the Old Calendar Church of Greece, but it is not as extensive,nor as well referenced, or as thorough. Nonetheless, it has additional material about Bp. Chrysostom. (Check them out at the Center for Traditionalist Orthodox Studies -- you can do a web search on that.)
[BTW, each book has its own slant on history]

Regarding the use of the "GOC", I presume you mean the current synod under Abp. Chrysostom Kiousis II? As you may know, there are different Old Calendar Jurisdictions in Greece that use the same name of "Genuine Orthodox Church" : Matthewites, the Lamians under Bp. Makrios, and the Cyprianites. some will use "True Orthodox church" (TOC) as well. I guess they're interchangeable.

Regarding the Kiousis synod, I don't know of anything written about them in book form. You may just need to go to their web site. Abp Pavlos in Astoria, NY (now Abp of North America) is from the Kiousis synod and has a web site as well.

As a historical FYI: none of the "Florinites" derive their consecrations from Bp. Chrysostom of Florina, as he refused to consecrate new bishops for the Old Calendarists and reposed failing to provide bishops. the "Florinites" are actually "Acacians" as they derive their orders from Archimandrite Acacius the Elder in the early 1960's who received his consecration from two ROCOR bishops acting independently of their synod: Bp Seraphim of Chicago, and the Romanian New Calendarist Bp. Theofilius (who, btw, always denied participating in this secret consecration). Later, Bp. Leonty of Chile (ROCOR) helped the new bishop Acacius to consecrate bishops for the "Florinite" remnant in Greece. So, technically, these bishops really derive their order from ROCOR -- not Bp. Chrys. of Florina -- and are also called "Acacians" for Bp. Acacius the Elder.

(The Matthewites derive their consecrations via Chrys. of Florina...fyi)

in Christ,
Nectarios

romiosini

Post by romiosini »

PatrickM wrote:

"That actually, will never happen. The egotism and selfishness of man to rule will prevent that."

Dear Romiosini,

Forgive me, but, even given the egotism and selfishness (which is our own), one must ask why "never"? Even the most fractious of families can unite over a shared love.

And even if "the love of many has grown cold" would one hold to the Faith, given the sacrifices that entails, without a love for God's Church?

Call me naive but I'm not willing to concede to never.

In Christ,

Patrick M.

I don't call you naive, please forgive me. But the more and more today people preach love, more schisms they create. I didn't mean in any critical mean way, but, I've witnessed and heard about so many ugly contreversies and scandals, that when I hear that synod A and synod B should unite, it has me thinking. Of course, if God's Will is to unite, then let it be blessed by Him! It is also fasting season that I become very critical, so please forgive me for my critism!

PatrickM
Newbie
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat 11 December 2004 4:28 pm

Post by PatrickM »

Dear-in-Christ Romiosini,

There is nothing to forgive. Having been around for a while I understand totally what you meant.

My comment was only meant to reflect that the burden and hope of the outward unity of the various jurisdictions is upon us. If we step back and look at what each of these jurisdictions believe we can see they all bear the love for Christ's Church and Faith.

Outwardly we squabble. Inwardly there's a common bond. I perfer to focus on that inward unity, however impractical it may appear...

In Christ,

Patrick M.

Anastasios
Sr Member
Posts: 886
Joined: Thu 7 November 2002 11:40 pm
Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOC-Archbishop Kallinikos
Location: Raleigh, NC
Contact:

Post by Anastasios »

It is obvious that one would want to dialogue with the GOC of Chrysostomos II as the Church with its roots firmly in the Florinite tradition and which is by far the largest GOC. The Lamians are a dying off schism (just like the Gregorians)--on paper some of their claims look legitimate, but for heaven's sake two of their founders were Metropolitans Paisios and Vikentios, who went EP and were "reordained" after being "rechrismated"! Also note that out of the six bishops who formed the Lamian Synod, all but two left the next year for the Athanasian Synod (which fell apart, I believe all of its members either dying, returning to Chrysostomos II, or going to the EP), while the two left, Kallinikos and Euthemios, were divided amongst themselves until they reunited, made new bishops, and remade their Synod; in effect we should really call the Lamian Synod the "Lamian Synod, Part II."

I am afraid that it seems that the Auxentities are not even a GOC anymore after they began consecrating with a pseudo bishop from the Alexandrian patriarchate (I am not calling all bishops in the patriarchate pseudo; I am saying that it seems it really was a guy claiming to be a bishop who was never consecrated). In fact, it seems the Auxentians have split into three groups? Maximos, Auxentios II, and HOCNA? I am not totally sure about that though.

I think that Metropolitan Cyprian's Church is the most consistent and has the highest morals, but the cost to achieve that has been a very pervasive and watchful program from the top down. Reading the corpus of Orthodox Tradition back issues is sort of like that picture of Stalin with his friends, the one where a few years later one of the guys is missing, a year later another guy is missing, until finally it's only Stalin left because he killed off everyone else. The Cyprian group is much like this; an upandcoming and promising individual is lauded; a few years later, he is mentioned as having been deposed on the back page with one sentance and no explanation. Bp Auxentios has been most helpful to me personally when I have corresponded with him, but I do not think I could ever fit into their homogenous program. Despite that, I still highly respect them and must say that their literature had a decisive impact on my decision to become Orthodox and had an even more decisive impact on how I have come to see the traditional exposition of Orthodoxy. Thank God for them!

Yet the Synod of Chrysostomos II remains; despite the horrible events of 1995-1996, they are reunited for the most part; they are spreading in America with missions; etc etc etc. Clearly they are the "winners" if we can look at it that way. The "Matthewites" would do well to join together with them.

Anastasios

User avatar
joasia
Protoposter
Posts: 1858
Joined: Tue 29 June 2004 7:19 pm
Jurisdiction: RTOC
Location: Montreal

Post by joasia »

I am sickened by the whole thing. As a convert, I am appalled by the lack of spiritual guidance amongst the Orthodox hierarchy.

As far as I am concerned, they are a sorry excuse for spiritual leadership.

All these divisions are pathetic and all it does is hurt the laity who want to worship Christ. Their divisions are based on male pride and that's all. Now, they are thrown in a worldpool of dogmatic dilemmas because of their personal agendas.

Shame on the clerics for allowing this. ALL CLERICS SHOULD FEEL THE SHAME. It is YOUR responsibility for the rest of us. Have you no sense of decency?? Do you not realize the responsibilities you hold in your hands...the vows you took? The judgement you will face?

It's not God that has allowed this...it's pure male STUPIDITY.

Post Reply