We should become peasants.

[TomS]

I would be interested in your comments on "living simpler" within Orthodoxy.

If you are not married, why not just chuck it all and go find a monastary to live in for a while?

[Theodora Elizabeth]

I would be interested in your comments on "living simpler" within Orthodoxy.

If you are not married, why not just chuck it all and go find a monastary to live in for a while?

That's beyond me, and I'm very well aware of it. And yes, I have visited a monastery before, for a weekend.

Theodora Elizabeth

[Liudmilla]

Tom--
Chucking everything and running away to a monastery is not always the answer to living simply and within orthodoxy. Not all of us a meant to be in a monastery or to live a monastic life. If you do not have a true calling, then all you are doing is running away from the life you are meant to live.

It is possible to live an orthodox life and still be in the world. You need to stick to your principles and do the best you can. Yes, you will need to be constantly vigilant. Yes, there will be times that you will be ridiculed, attacked, vilified, but ultimately you have to remember that you are an Orthodox Christian because you WANT TO BE and not because of what the world will think of you. Eventually you may have an effect on those around you -- even if it is grudging respect or disrespect. Your orthodox principles will speak for you and not against you.

I believe that the people of the world -- whether consciously or unconsiously -- hunger to believe in something. People do become curious about your faith and why you do it and it is your responcibility as an orthodox christian to show them the beauty of your faith.

milla

[TomS]

Tom--
Chucking everything and running away to a monastery is not always the answer to living simply and within orthodoxy. Not all of us a meant to be in a monastery or to live a monastic life.

I am not saying that she is meant for that kind of life. But it sounds to me like she is actively searching for a more pious lifestyle. So why not give it a try NOW, when you don't have anything stopping you.

See, I believe in living life PRO-ACTIVELY. By living that way you will never end down the road wondering what might have been. Regretting opportunities that you had, yet squandered.

[Theodora Elizabeth]

Tom--
Chucking everything and running away to a monastery is not always the answer to living simply and within orthodoxy. Not all of us a meant to be in a monastery or to live a monastic life.

I am not saying that she is meant for that kind of life. But it sounds to me like she is actively searching for a more pious lifestyle. So why not give it a try NOW, when you don't have anything stopping you.

See, I believe in living life PRO-ACTIVELY. By living that way you will never end down the road wondering what might have been. Regretting opportunities that you had, yet squandered.

I don't have the temperament for monastic live. Co-workers (Mostly lapsed Roman Catholics or Protestants of some stripe) keep telling me I should go into a monastery, since Orthodox piety is not something on their radar screen (Saturday Great Vespers, Matins/Divine Liturgy/Adult Sunday School on Sundays, Wednesday Vespers - my parish has done this for years, daily prayer/Bible reading, the fasts, etc.).

I (as well as my priest, and others - this has been told to me) truly feel I am called to be a wife and mother. I'm a domesticated homebody and enjoy nothing more than puttering around the house, cooking, helping others with their children. The problem is finding an Orthodox husband, particularly since I don't want to move. I guess the problem would also be finding an Orthodox guy with the right priorities (and who has the same level of belief/practice I do). I've come across way too many guys who are either workaholics or who tell me from the beginning that they want their wives to work, because they don't want to make the sacrifices for their wife to be home with the kids. They actually want to put their kids in daycare!

But that digresses...or maybe it doesn't. Part of living simpler is learning frugality, which I'm doing now, so that when I am a SAHM (pray it happens soon), I will be "in practice."

Theodora Elizabeth

[Vasily]

Fortunately, my wife and I agree that we do not want our children in daycare and we have made sacrifices for her to stay at home. We also agree that we will homeschool our children.

I cannot live as simply as I would like, but I guess in my own way I'm trying to make sacrifices and follow Christ. I was always drawn to monasticism, so I try to incorporate that into our family's life, but my wife and I do not see eye to eye on that completely.

Basil

[Justin Kissel]

I'm not good at simple living... so maybe I should post on temptations that lead you away from simple living (something I have a lot of experience with!) Recently my wife and I bought another TV. We've thrown out or given away two since we were married 18 months ago, along with DVD players, VCRs, etc. It's taken me a while to realise that sometimes our proverbial "spiritual eyes" are bigger than our "spiritual stomachs". We see spiritual meat and want it (in the form of humility, simplicity, etc.), even though we are really only ready for spiritual milk. For us, having no cable seems to be as "simple" as we can live, even if it isn't the ultimate goal I fantasize about. Most times it's nothing more than spiritual delusion to think I should jump into the deep water straight off and go as simplistic as I can get.

Sometimes simplicity and humility means admitting to yourself that you are not ready to handle certain things yet. I do not say this to minimize the importance of fasting, alms giving, living with few possessions, with few distractions, and so forth. I've supported such things (in words, though not in actions) to such an acute degree that I've been mocked as being out of touch with reality by some Orthodox brothers They were perhaps right. Salvation is a steep and rugged ascent, and simplicity is a divine virtue, an effort of faith, which requires two things 1) we must cultivate it, and 2) God must give us the grace to attain the virtue.

All of our attempts will come to nothing if God is not ready to help us attain the virtue. So, if God does not think we are spiritually ready for the virtue, then it doesn't do much good going after it. In fact, it can be very harmful. Sure it's tempting to have lofty goals for your spiritual life... but we have to ask who is doing that tempting? Maybe it's God leading, and maybe not. A spiritual Father (or parish priest/confessor) would probably know better than we recently converted, sinful, lay people. Being thrown into the deep and living sea of Orthodoxy, it's sometimes easy to forget that we are yet Babes in Christ, and have only begun to learn to swim. Even many great Saints--even "desert ascetics"--led a life of moderation... it all depends on what we are capable of handling, through the will and grace of God. Here's a story from the Sayings of the Desert Fathers that I try to keep in mind:

There was a monk from Rome who lived at Scetis near the church. He had a slave to serve him. The priest, knowing his bad health and the comfort in which he used to live, sent him what he needed of whatever anyone brought to the church. Having lived twenty-five years at Scetis he had acquired the gift of insight and became famous. One of the great Egyptians heard about him and came to see him, thinking he would fine him leading a life of great corporal austerity. He entered and greeted him. They said the prayer and sat down. Now the Egyptian saw he was wearing fine clothing, and that he possessed a bed with a coverlet and a small pillow. He saw that his feet were clean and shod with sandals.

Noticing all this, he was shocked, because such a way of life is not usual in that district; much greater auterity is requied. Now the old man had the gift and insight and he understood that he was shocked, and so he said to him who served him, 'We will celebrate a feast today for the abba's sake.' There were a few vegetables, and he cooked them and at the appointed hour, they rose and ate. The old man had a little wine also, because of his illness; so they drank some. When evening came, they recited the twelve psalms and went to sleep. They did the same during the night. On rising at dawn, the Egyptian said to him, 'Pray for me,' and he went away without being edified.

When he had gone a short distance, the old man, wishing to edify him, sent someone to bring him back. On his arrival he received him once again with joy and asked him, 'Of what country are you?' He said, 'Egypt'. 'And of what city?' 'I am not a citizen at all.' 'And what wasyour work in the village?' 'I was a herdsman.' 'Where did you sleep?' He replied 'In the field.' 'Did you have anything to lie upon?' He said, 'Would I go and put a bed under myself in a field?' 'But how did you sleep?' He said, 'On the bare ground.'

The old man said next, 'What was your food in the fields, and what wine did you drink?' He replied, 'Is there food and drink in the fields?' 'But how did you live?' 'I ate dry bread, and, if I found any, green herbs and water.' The old man replied, 'Great hardship! Was there a bath-house for washing in the village?' He replied, 'No, only the river, when we wanted it.' After the old man had learnt all this and knew the hardness of his former life, he told him his own former way of life when he was in the world, with the intention of helping him.

'I, the poor man whom you see, am of the great city of Rome and I was a great man in the palace of the emperor.' When the Egyptian heard the beginning of these words, he was filled with compunction and listened attentively to what the other was saying. He continued, 'Then I left the city and came to this desert. I whom you see had great houses and many riches and having despised them I have come to this little cell. I whom you see had beds all of gold with coverings of great value, and in exchange for that, God has given me this little bed and this skin. Moreover, my clothes were the most expensive kind and in their stead I wear these garments of no value. Again, at my table there was much gold and instead of that God has given me this little dish of vegetables and a cup of wine.'

'There were many slaves to serve me and see how in exchange for that, God troubles this old man to serve me. Instead of the bath-house, I throw a little water over my feet and wear sandals because of my weakness. Instead of music and lyres, I say the twelve psalms and the same at night; instead of the sins I used to commit I now say my rule of prayer. So then I beg you, abba, do not be shocked at my weakness.' hearing this, the Egyptian came to his senses and said, 'Woe to me, for after so much hardship in the world, I have found ease; and what I did not have before, that I now possess. While after so great ease, you have come to humility and poverty.' Greatly edified, he withdrew, and he became his friend and often went to him for help. For he was a man full of discernment and the good odour of the Holy Spirit. - Sayings of the Desert Fathers, An Abba of Rome [Arsenius the Great], 1

PS. Good luck in finding an Orthodox spouse