Unity

Discussion about the various True Orthodox Churches around the world including current events. Subforums in other langauges, primarily English on the main forum.


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Unseen.Warfare
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Re: Unity

Post by Unseen.Warfare »

https://archive.org/details/saint-basil ... 3/mode/2up

The increasing realization in recent years of the basic oneness of the cause of True Orthodoxy throughout the world, whether in the Catacomb Church of Russia, the old calendarists of Greece, or the Russian Church Outside of Russia, has led some to think in terms of a "united front" of confessing Churches to oppose the ecumenical movement which has taken possession of "official" Orthodoxy. However, under present conditions this will hardly come to pass; and in any case, this is a "political" view of the situation which sees the significance of the mission of true Orthodoxy in too external a manner. The full dimensions of the True-Orthodox protest against "ecumenical Orthodoxy", against the neutralized, lukewarm Orthodoxy of the apostasy, have yet to be revealed, above all in Russia. But it cannot be that the witness of so many martyrs and confessors and champions of True Orthodoxy in the 20th century will have been in vain. May God preserve His zealots in the royal path of true Orthodoxy, faithful to Him and to His Holy Church until the end of the age!
From: The Orthodox Word, vol. 12, № 5 (70) Sept.-Oct. 1976, pp. 143-149.

Furthermore, the New Calendarists and Ecumenists themselves are hardly free from internal divisions. The Ukrainian church has fragmented into three major and many minor groups; the Church of Macedonia has declared itself autocephalous and is shunned by the other Patriarchates; the Churches of Bulgaria and Montenegro have each spawned independent "counter churches," the Patriarchate of Jerusalem has two Patriarchs who do not recognize each other; and a bewildering array of vagante groups exist, claiming apostolic succession from one or another of the official churches. In addition, the official Patriarchates are often very hostile to one another, and the Patriarchate of Constantinople in particular has the tendency to carve out and support uncanonical, autonomous churches within the historical territory of the other Patriarchates, especially that of Moscow.

The existence of many competing jurisdictions in the TOC is not a bothersome issue. This is because, first of all, a jurisdiction is a relative idea: it is an institution, part of this world, an institution primarily of convenience. It is not the faith nor is it reducible to the faith: it is an organization that often takes itself to be the very font of grace and truth. The multitude of TOC jurisdictions throughout the world are one in faith: this cannot be denied. The divisions among the TOC are based largely on personal squabbles and the desire for income and recognition. Nevertheless, the multitude of jurisdictions and bishops is providential: it provides a highly decentralized model of church life that can survive the world of antichrist where we currently live. A single powerful organization is easy to corrupt, a multitude of small organizations is almost impossible to corrupt. Therefore, in my opinion, all TOC jurisdictions share an identical mission and an identical faith, and therefore, are all grace filled vessels of salvation. It is the faith of the community that gives sustenance to the bishops, not the other way around. A bad bishop within a heathy community is far preferable to an unhealthy community with saints as bishops.

Fear not, little flock, for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the Kingdom (Luke 12:32)

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Unseen.Warfare
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Re: Unity

Post by Unseen.Warfare »

SavaBeljovic wrote: Sat 1 March 2025 1:36 pm

post scriptum: since I don't like editing my comments too many times. I will also add a few more thoughts. In Greece, there's a lot of "shared Saints" between the Florinites and Matthewites, such as St. Kallinikos the Ever-Vigilant, St. Haralampos, Fool for Christ, and Blessed Taraszia, Fool For Christ. Not to mention I personally know many Florinites even here in the US who venerate Abp. Matthew I of Bresthena.

I think the "infighting' and "court politics" are a big temptation from the evil one. I think one thing besides our prayers we can do on the "ground level" to help this situation is to avoid such temptations, and more than anything be friends and -- if available -- visit other True Orthodox.

We shouldn't attack those who would call us brother, and those who hold to the same Faith as us. Whether or not the situation gets better or worse, while concerning, has little bearing on us personally, as our struggle still comes from the spiritual life, and avoiding heresy, regardless of how many Bishops we are in communion with.

St. John Maximovitch says in the last days, you will be able to count the number of Orthodox Bishops on one hand. St. Nektary of Optina says there might only be one left. In Russia during the Soviet period, you only had individual Bishops. No Synods, or large communions. It was like this in the early centuries of Christianity as well.

This isn't to say there are no schismatics, parasynagogues or heretics who use the name "True Orthodox". Fr. Steven Allen said there is a temptation here of "...taking everyone for their word and accepting heresies" and "becoming so isolated in a view point your Synod is the only correct one, that you become a sectarian..."

I’d genuinely like to see True Orthodox Christians have closer relations and be in full eucharistic communion with one another. Discuss the issues that are dividing jurisdictions and attempt to work it out. Instead of holding onto grudges. I’d also like to see people who genuinely want to be Orthodox embraced and not pushed away. I have read that text on Saint Basil and Bishop Enoch was telling me about the situation with Saint Meletios. Very similar to what we see today amongst our True Orthodox brothers. This post was an attempt at getting people to discuss any issues they have and maybe try to resolve issues. I apologize if I’ve personally offended anyone and any problems I’ve personally caused throughout time forgive me. ☦️

Fear not, little flock, for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the Kingdom (Luke 12:32)

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Re: Unity

Post by Jean-Serge »

Unseen.Warfare wrote: Thu 27 February 2025 6:36 am

What’s keeping all the True Orthodox Christians from being in communion and is it possible to work it out? What issues are keeping us apart? Can this be fixed?

It seems to me that the question was raised in another thread with some answers given. Here are my answers :

  • Lack of knowledge of who is who : it is difficult to know what is this particular synod in this particular country if this synod publishes nothing or only things in its language

  • Parasynagogism : belief that the fact that a bishop is legitimate because he was ordained by 2 bishops only leads to more splits

  • Bad usage of the Ukase 362 of saint Tikhon : it is used to justify schism whereas it did not allow bishops to split from the synod

  • differences in ecclesiology : some true orthodox wants other to believe that claiming to be a true orthodox church is enough to be really a legitimate chirch, as if true orthodoxy was exempt from parasynagogs and schisms

  • cyprianism, crypto-cyprianism and associated doctrines or behaviours : some true orthodox churches adhered to it officially or unofficially

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Re: Unity

Post by Suaidan »

Jean-Serge wrote: Sat 8 March 2025 5:29 pm

It seems to me that the question was raised in another thread with some answers given. Here are my answers :

  • Lack of knowledge of who is who : it is difficult to know what is this particular synod in this particular country if this synod publishes nothing or only things in its language

  • Parasynagogism : belief that the fact that a bishop is legitimate because he was ordained by 2 bishops only leads to more splits

  • Bad usage of the Ukase 362 of saint Tikhon : it is used to justify schism whereas it did not allow bishops to split from the synod

  • differences in ecclesiology : some true orthodox wants other to believe that claiming to be a true orthodox church is enough to be really a legitimate chirch, as if true orthodoxy was exempt from parasynagogs and schisms

  • cyprianism, crypto-cyprianism and associated doctrines or behaviours : some true orthodox churches adhered to it officially or unofficially

While each of these could become its own thread... what was the other thread? I probably missed it, so if you have it handy, please share so we can work with one or the other

Fr Joseph Suaidan (Suaiden, same guy)

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