Serbian patriarch and spiration

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eish
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Serbian patriarch and spiration

Post by eish »

So...I hear in Fr. Joseph's latest show that the Serbian patriarch just anathematised the procession of the Spirit from the Father on the Sunday of Orthodoxy, allegedly. With no translation we have only the allegation and the shocked reaction of those in the video.

Has anybody learned more?

At this point I have to wonder if the bishops have a bet running on how explicitly one can shout "I AM A UNIATE! WE'RE ALL UNIATES! EVERYBODY IN COMMUNION WITH ME IS A UNIATE! YOU TOO!" and still have Dyerite trads rationalise it like they're named Taylor Marshall.

https://www.youtube.com/live/jQok2vZUpw8

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Barbara
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Re: Serbian patriarch and spiration

Post by Barbara »

Do you mind if I ask what a "dyerite trad" is ? I understand trad, of course. But can you explain what that Jay Dyer guy is all about ?
I've been waiting for a chance to find out from an accurate source.
And who is Taylor Marshall ?

eish
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Re: Serbian patriarch and spiration

Post by eish »

Barbara wrote: Mon 1 April 2024 11:33 pm

Do you mind if I ask what a "dyerite trad" is ? I understand trad, of course. But can you explain what that Jay Dyer guy is all about ?
I've been waiting for a chance to find out from an accurate source.
And who is Taylor Marshall ?

 

The concepts are related.

Taylor Marshall is a Roman Catholic traditionalist. He makes videos on YT about how horrible the latest thing is that Pope Francis has done, while insisting that his followers must just stay loyal to papism and pray the rosary really hard for this temptation to pass. Jay Dyer likes to bash traditional Catholicism and names names, Marshall being one of the people of whom he likes to speak ill. He used to be one himself. He calls them out rightly, but has extremely poor manners so that nearly everybody on social media blocks him. (Dyer spends a significant amount of time doing bad impressions of people's voices and singing bad songs that he makes up.) Then he whines about being a victim because nobody wants to debate him. (See Fr. Joseph's video clip from that time he went on Jay's show if you want to know how interested Jay is in debate, or even having opposing positions present at all.) He insists that the fact his own patriarch does the same things has no bearing on the validity of his WO confession. (This is only partly correct. We don't have papal infallibility as he rightly points out, but we also aren't allowed to commune with heretics, which he conveniently ignores.)

"Trad" is what Dyer calls traditionalist Catholics. The ones who know Vatican 2 is heretical, who know that Francis is a public apostate, who want to go back, but can't let go of their papist beliefs and insist they must just stay with the heretic (and think up rationalisations on how it is technically not heresy).

Jay knows ecumenism is heresy, he knows Sergianism is heresy, he knows lgbt-qwerty is heresy, he knows the Havana agreement is uniatism, but he insists that everyone must stay with heretical patriarchs because in his mind those official structures constitute the church.

It is ironically, the exact same position that Taylor Marshall holds. In other words, Jay Dyer is a trad ecumenist. Except Dr. Marshall is an altogether nicer guy.

That was the important part for the comment. Dyer is a film critic; he specialises in watching movies over and over and then makes videos about how particular symbols in the films have satanic meanings. IMO this is way over-done. I don't mind that he did it a few times, what worries me is that the guy keeps watching all this satanic stuff over and over even after finding out what it is. When he gives commentary which goes basically like: "Look at this display on the screen, it's a ritual to cast a spell on those who see it and draw you in psychologically," then talking about watching it again, and especially just for fun, is not what I consider a sign of sanity. He also reads books by NWO types (Schwab, Huxley, etc.) and talks about their plans. His followers behave strangely when you encounter them. Young right-wing adult males, generally parroting anything he says even when he says the fathers are wrong (not the norm, but he does do it), obsessed with "debate," obsessed with controlling the conversation by refusing to discuss anything other than a narrow segment of philosophy which Jay tells them is foundational,* rude and aggressive, oddly specific conspiracies,** etc. They're known as Orthobros, but we just call them Dyerites.

* It's complicated. Jay claims that world-view is the basis of everything else and you can't discuss the rest until you have justified your world-view. He says Orthodoxy provides his world-view and is the only system which can do so, then talks about why the opponent's world-view is bad. He refuses to discuss whatever faults the opponent may find in his Orthodoxy because that is not, according to him, world-view, even though he just said it was where his world-view comes from and must therefore be the foundational portion. It's all about controlling the discussion (he says so explicitly) but none of his opponents have been skilled enough to call him out on it. This is, I believe, not a coincidence since he is extremely selective about who gets to debate him. They have to go through his lackeys first. But he insists everyone is too scared to debate him.
** For example Jay claims that moon landings and space probes are fake but space stations and satellites are real.

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RocaRemnant
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Re: Serbian patriarch and spiration

Post by RocaRemnant »

Barbara wrote: Mon 1 April 2024 11:33 pm

Do you mind if I ask what a "dyerite trad" is ? I understand trad, of course. But can you explain what that Jay Dyer guy is all about ?
I've been waiting for a chance to find out from an accurate source.
And who is Taylor Marshall ?

 

A “dyerite trad” is a new calendar conservative on steroids 

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Barbara
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Re: Serbian patriarch and spiration

Post by Barbara »

Thanks for answering, Almond ! It sounds ridiculous, maybe, but I have been wondering who on earth that person is for awhile. In the sense of in which jurisdiction is he [and his I guess large coterie of followers ?]
I could NOT figure it out ! Is he part of the Fr Peter Heers - Orthodox Ethos group who have yet to be received into any jurisdiction ? Or he is separate ?

If you have any idea, please respond. WHY on earth are they NEW Calendar ??? What is their idea ?? Is it because of Fr Peter Heers' having been in the Greek New Calendar Church during his years in the Thessaloniki region ?
None of it makes sense to me.

I'd be glad if you could shed some light on these two perplexing figures !

 
Oh, sorry, I missed the wonderful answer by eish ! I'm reading through it, but I may still have the above questions !

Do you have a link by chance for that video of the faulty debate between Jay Dyer and Fr Joseph ? I just want to get a sense of the ambiance.

These people are so strange ! So THESE are the "Orthobros" ? Do they call themselves that ? Or is that a term invented by their opponents, like author of the Texas Monthly article Meagan Saliashvili ?

I know I must sound not up with things, but this site was gone for what - 2 years ? So there was no way to really find out the answers ! I'm glad the Euphrosynos Cafe is bac again now !

So is Jay Dyer the dictator for a large group of minions and followers ? Who might they all be under, then ? You mentioned his advocating they all stay with Patriarchs. Under which one are they, though ? It doesn't seem clear at all from a glance at their material.

Also, do you have ANY idea how many of these Orthobros there are ? What about Orthosis's - ?!

Thanks for explaining Taylor Marshall. I might have seen his name as the author of a book called "Infiltration" or something like that.

 
 
 
 
 
 

eish
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Re: Serbian patriarch and spiration

Post by eish »

Barbara wrote: Tue 2 April 2024 11:25 pm

Thanks for answering, Almond ! It sounds ridiculous, maybe, but I have been wondering who on earth that person is for awhile. In the sense of in which jurisdiction is he [and his I guess large coterie of followers ?]
I could NOT figure it out ! Is he part of the Fr Peter Heers - Orthodox Ethos group who have yet to be received into any jurisdiction ? Or he is separate ?

If you have any idea, please respond. WHY on earth are they NEW Calendar ??? What is their idea ?? Is it because of Fr Peter Heers' having been in the Greek New Calendar Church during his years in the Thessaloniki region ?
None of it makes sense to me.

I'd be glad if you could shed some light on these two perplexing figures !

 
Oh, sorry, I missed the wonderful answer by eish ! I'm reading through it, but I may still have the above questions !

Do you have a link by chance for that video of the faulty debate between Jay Dyer and Fr Joseph ? I just want to get a sense of the ambiance.

These people are so strange ! So THESE are the "Orthobros" ? Do they call themselves that ? Or is that a term invented by their opponents, like author of the Texas Monthly article Meagan Saliashvili ?

I know I must sound not up with things, but this site was gone for what - 2 years ? So there was no way to really find out the answers ! I'm glad the Euphrosynos Cafe is bac again now !

So is Jay Dyer the dictator for a large group of minions and followers ? Who might they all be under, then ? You mentioned his advocating they all stay with Patriarchs. Under which one are they, though ? It doesn't seem clear at all from a glance at their material.

Also, do you have ANY idea how many of these Orthobros there are ? What about Orthosis's - ?!

Thanks for explaining Taylor Marshall. I might have seen his name as the author of a book called "Infiltration" or something like that.

 
 
 
 
 
 

 

It is the latest video. Not a debate per se. https://youtu.be/qpkIZ17Dlrg

They call themselves orthobros quite commonly; I don't know who came up with the term.

Jay is in ROCOR and used to be in the OCA until they had a falling-out. I don't know the details. He does promote Moscow's views.

He promotes the standard conservative World Orthodox position, namely that all of the official jurisdictions are the church and everyone else is not. His followers go to various of these, including the EP. David Erhan is a notable protege of his in Turkey under the EP. However, he speaks inconsistently on the subject. On the one hand he will say such things but on the other hand he will say things to the effect that the (official) Greeks with their liberal shenanigans are not his problem because of Moscow declaring them schismatic.

His followers are all over the place but will usually go for something like ROCOR if it exists in their area. The ones who find themselves surrounded by liberal OCA/GOARCH parishes are in for a culture shock when they show up. I believe our clergy on the café can tell you more about those who reach out to them when they learn that they were sold a lie.

It is an overwhelmingly male group, drawn mainly from terminally online white nationalists. Quite a few of them might be autistic, given where they are recruited. Generally these start larping and arguing with people online before they have even sought out a church or become catechumens. I literally mean that they go around teaching when they haven't even joined a church at all, let alone been made readers.

It is cult-like behaviour but I do not think they have any official organisation. It is a group who watch Jay's videos and join his Discord debate club.

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Barbara
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Re: Serbian patriarch and spiration

Post by Barbara »

Thanks SO much for all this helpful explanation, eish ! So Jay is in Rocor. Do you have any clue which diocese ? For some reason, I assume he is in the Mid-West, which would put him under Abp Peter of Chicago if so. I remember seeing the latter's reprimand directed at Fr Peter Heers. I wonder whether that Abp has spoken out against Jay and Co. ?!

Oh ! That brings me to a central question : how do these two figures interrelate - if at all ? Are they all part of the same large loosely affiliated group ? Or, are Jay's followers separate from the Orthodox Ethos group ? I realize that the latter has NOT been accepted anywhere, despite likely strenuous efforts by them, and perhaps on behalf of them.

Does that mean that Jay is Western Rite if he is New Calendar ? I'm trying to figure out this puzzle. Take your time in answering.

Meanwhile I have to look up what 'larping' means...!

 
 

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