Padre Pio

[Pravoslavnik]

Christos Voskrese!

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   I saw a news article this week (and a photo) about the incorrupt relics of the Roman Catholic priest Padre Pio, who died in 1968 in Italy.  I recall reading about the stigmatist Padre Pio in the 1960s, but had not heard much about him over the years.  I have been an Orthodox Christian for almost twenty years now, and have considered the modern Roman Catholic Church to be "in error," so I must confess that seeing the photo of the incorrupt relics of Padre Pio has given me pause.  My first impression is one of joy and consolation.  Then confusion.  Have I really been "correct" to doubt the grace or holy mysteries of the Roman Catholic Church?  Are God and the Church not truly glorified in Their saints?  Perhaps we have all been deceived by the anti-"ecumenical" fervor of our super-correct Orthodox brethren...To make matters all the more confusing, the body of blessed Metropolitan Philaret (Vosnesensky), who was strongly opposed to ecumenism, has also been found to be incorrupt.  What would the Metropolitan and Padre Pio say to each other if they spoke today about ecumenism?  Probably, "Christ is Risen!  Let us call brothers even those who hate us!"

[GOCPriestMark]

It takes more than an incorrupt body to indicate true holiness.
How is being against all heresies, ("anti-'ecumenical'"), a deception?
Shall we be for the things which God has taught us He is against?

[尼古拉前执事]

Yes, when in China I even saw a 6,000 year old incorrupt body of a queen in HuNan Museum. Incorrupt bodies happen in every region and every religion, so we obviously cannot go on that alone.

[Pravoslavnik]

?????,

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Well, I suppose there is also the holiness of life of Padre Pio to consider, and the stigmata.  Of course, if he had been a libertarian Republican like your favorite Presidential candidate, Ron Paul, he would be less of a question mark.

[Petros1711]

Hi, I am new here and this is my first post. I saw this thread and could not resist the opportunity to ad my two cents. I am not a scholar or theologian. I am just a simple layman who has read a few things over the years.

There is a phenomenon of incorrupt unholy dead. We see this in cases with certain hindu gurus. Dr. Cavarnos once told me that people can be incorrupt due to holiness or exteme sin. Those in extreme sin are different, however. Their bodies are bloated and usually dark. The saints, on the other hand, exhude a myrh and perform miracles and healings. The devil always attempts to immitate God.

However, I am not sure this is the case with Pio, and the other dozens of incorruptibles in the Latin Church.

Pio is interesting because he was fully clarirvoyant. People would go to him for confession and try to hide sins. But Pio would point them out. One time two Freemasons went to confess to him, to make a mockery of Pio, but Pio revealed their identity to them and scared them. I think they even joined the Church after that.

Pio could bi-locate, and was seen levitating and wrestled with demons everynight.

He healed a woman born blind with no pupils. It is medically impossible to see without pupils. This girl was still going up the driveway in a car [she was a passenger] to see him, and was given vision for the first time in her life. Her name is "Gemma di Giorgi.

HOWEVER

as an Orthodox Christian I have some reservations about Pio.

Stigmata cannot be found in the Church before the schism of 1054. Why would God wait over a thousand years [Francis of Assisi] to give this gift? This gift is not found in the east anywhere.

[Pravoslavnik]

Petros,

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There is an interesting book called [i]The Incorruptibles[/i], by Joan Carroll Cruz, which was published in 1974.  It has brief articles and photos of over 100 Roman Catholic saints whose bodies were incorrupt after death.  Many of these (from the era prior to 1054 A.D.) are, of course, also saints of the Orthodox Church.  Cruz is a Roman Catholic, and seems unaware of the many incorrupt Orthodox saints of the past millenium, even referring at one point in her book to the "mummified" remains of the Russian Orthodox monks of the Kiev caves!!??...
   It is an interesting phenomenon which you describe.  In the Roman Catholic West, many who have been considered saints, like Padre Pio, have exhibited stigmata.  In the Orthodox East, the [i]transfiguration[/i] of saints has been more characteristic.  I know Orthodox fathers and brethren who have considered the stigmata of the Roman Catholic saints to be spiritually "bogus," but recall that the Apostle St. Paul mentioned in one of his epistles that he "bore on (his) body the marks of the Lord."  Is this not the case?
    I may be greeted with a howl of execration for saying so, but is it not possible that the manifestations of sanctity in the Apostolic Churches of the East and the West are reflections of the Eastern emphasis on the [i]divinity [/i]of Christ, and the Western emphasis on His [i]humanity[/i]?

[Kosmas]

I disagree with you Pravoslavnik.

What I find absolutely amazing about the strange phenomenon of stigmata is that I have never heard it questioned from a Roman Catholic. Most Roman Catholics just accept it is a supernatural sign from God. There is no effort whatsoever to see perhaps it is from the other side. The evil one can make false miracles that appear to be good all the time. Just what is the spiritual message that stigmata teaches?

That sinful man or woman is seen to be sharing the Passion of Christ literally! That a man or woman can actually compare themselves to the Son of God, the Redeemer and come out somewhat equal!
By having the hands, head, or eyes bleeding on their own to denote holiness is not only bizarre but anti-christian. At one point the stigmatized Francis of Assisi was preaching to birds the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. That translates to any grounded Orthodox Christian as spiritual delusion or plani / prelest. Pio must of been suffering from the same thing.

Please read this to correct any misunderstandings you may have about this subject.

http://www.russian-inok.org/page.php?pa ... month=0703