Really, really upsetting website, mentions Holy Trintiy

[sue57]

As some of you may know, I'm taking a catachumen class this summer at the ROCOR church that I've been attending. The class is great. For our last class in August, Archimandrite Luke is coming to speak to our class. Tonight, when I came home from class, I did a google search for "converts to ROCOR". As usual with the Internet, you never know what will turn up. Sadly, what did turn up is a "orthodox" site for white supremisists (however you spell it.) They were talking about Father Luke. I'm so upset I can't even type. I'm just going to copy this in.

"Even the "official" ROCOR is in decline. Years ago, the Holy Trinity Seminary in Jordanville was a bastion of Orthodoxy. You will now find in the bookstore all the Parisian writers, something that was quite anathema in the Jordanville of old. Sadly, Jordanville is reportedly full of Jewish converts who only converted for a Green Card. Met. Lavra was more concerned about getting $$ for the seminary than he was over the integrity of the school and the qualities of its students and future priests. The spiritual state there is so bad now that even the well-loved and known spiritual father Luke is having many difficult struggles. This is because he refused to act when while the life blood was being drained from the Synod. Please pray for him and all the people I mentioned. Pray for their repentance and spiritual health. Pray for me a sinner."

Yeah, right, you are a sinner! Does this guy know how many Russians were killed by the nazis?? Why does this creep even know about Holy Trinity? I'm too embarassed to ask my priest about this. I'm so upset, that I'm just going to pray and try to go to sleep. This is so sickening. I'm not even sure I want to go to Father Luke's talk. Why does this neo-nazi speak highly of him? I don't want to join a church that has nazis in it! I'm half German, and sin that it is, I hate Germans! As far as I'm concerned, they have no excuse. As for the people on this white power site, they should be deported. They can go join Al Quada, because they're just as bad.

[Savva24]

Dear Sue,

You should never have let this sillyness bother you.

Believe me, I have been in ROCOR my whole life and there is no Nazi conspiricy in her. If you read the quote well, you would have noticed that this pinhead is critisizing ROCOR for being too liberal and not meeting his standards of fanatism. Don't judge ROCOR because some single nut joins it. You will find at least a few nuts in any juristiction or organization. That in no way reflects it. And don't think that just because this guy respects Fr. Luke that it somehow reflects on him; Fr. Luke didn't ask for it.

You will read many a sickening thing on the internet. Please try not to let it get to you so.

In Christ,

Nicholas (Savva)

[хорист]

I'm too embarassed to ask my priest about this. I'm so upset, that I'm just going to pray and try to go to sleep. This is so sickening. I'm not even sure I want to go to Father Luke's talk.

When people say things like "reportedly," it's usually a sign they are winging it. Don't pay much attention. Find out for yourself. To do this, and especially since you have grave concerns, you should (IMHO) not only talk to your priest about it but also go to Fr. Luke's talk. Ask questions and clear the air.

[ania]

Dear sues57,
Don't be upset about what some... misguided individual says about Jordanville. I've lived there practically all my life (from when I was 3 until 21). Granted there are/were several monks who are/were Russian Jews. One, o. Andrey Irastov comes to mind. Out of all the young (under 70 yo) monks in Jordanville (I'm talking 2 years ago, as since then I've only come for visits) he is the quietest monk there. He came from the USSR & if he wanted his greencard (I don't know his exact status) he could have had it & left Jordanville years ago. He is a talented iconographer, and his work decorates many ROCOR churches.
In the 80s, there was an influx of seminarians from the USSR. Many, but not all, came for greencards, yes. That is an issue that faded out in the mid 90s (though from time to time tries to pop up again). There are now much easier ways to get into the US than through school.
As for what was/is in the bookstore. Jordanville back in the day had to publish most of the things in their bookstore. Now however they import many things from Russia, as well as export a lot of their stuff to Russia. My suggestion, acquire a Jordanville bookstore catalogue (they send me one every year, goodness knows why, I never signed up for it). Then you'll be able to see for yourself.
As far as Nazis go, yes, hate fascism... however, don't hate Germans. If it wasn't for the Germans in WW2 (& yes, I know they committed atrocities, but it wasn't all of them, or nearly all of them) many of the people of ROCOR (including my family) would never have survived, much less made it out of the USSR to Western Europe. That is a long story perhaps for another time.
Fr. Luke... well, I have my own opinion of Fr. Luke, and don't particularly like him, and I could go on about why people like & dislike Fr. Luke. However, I won't. I will say this; don't let someone's opinion of Fr. Luke be your meter of Orthodoxy. If you have doubts, go to Jordanville and see for yourself.

[sue57]

First, thanks for all your supportive and intelligent replys. And thanks to Ania for her PM to me.

Well, now in the light of day, I've calmed down quite a bit. I realize that their are Protestants, Catholics, and probably even a few very misguided Jews on neo-nazi-type websites. The criticisms of Jordanville are ridiculous. There is a Protestant seminary in the city I live in, and they recently had to sell their whole library to the big university I used to work for. They just needed the money so badly, so of course, money is unfortunately always a consideration. Churches of all types just have to behave in an ethical manner. And if ROCOR is too liberal for the neo-nazis, GREAT!

I think part of the issue is, I really like the people at my church, the priest is awesome, his matushka is great, and naturally, anything that sullies that experience in any way is very upsetting. I think this is sort of "convert sydrome." If I met any clergyperson, of course, I'd be respectful, but I'd probably judge them (unconsiously) the way we judge anyone we meet, are they nice or not? With ROCOR clergy though, I tend to think they are all saintly people doing God's work. Sadly, we all have our faults, clergy included.

There's a reader at my church who's thinking of becoming a priest. He and his wife have been very nice to me, and she herself was a convert, recieved into Orthodoxy at Jordanville. I think this Sunday, I'll ask them what they think of all this. I'll tell Reader Nicholas that this is a trail run for pastoral work! I don't have any Orthodox friends, so when questions come up, it's either here or wait 'til Sunday.

As for Father Luke, I'll just judge for myself. We have a box in the church hall to put in questions for him. And no, I'm not going to ask him if he knows that some neo-nazi in cyberspace likes him!

[Savva24]

As for Father Luke, I'll just judge for myself. We have a box in the church hall to put in questions for him. And no, I'm not going to ask him if he knows that some neo-nazi in cyberspace likes him!

[joasia]

Sue,

With ROCOR clergy though, I tend to think they are all saintly people doing God's work.

Don't be so naive. They can mistakes too...many times.

I've been to Jordanville and I know about the Jews who came for the green cards. It's not commendable, on the part of the hierarchy. But, it has happened for many decades. God will judge them for whatever motives they were following.

I have gone to Fr. Luke for confession and I was very distraught after I left him. He is not someone that gives much understanding to strangers. Especially those who are not Russian. I will never go to him for confession again. I don't think he likes to deal with women.

But there are all kinds of characters amongst monastics, just like amongst laity.

For example, Vladika Vitaly refused to consecrate St. John Maximovitch as a saint. He was one of the bishops who strongly opposed St. John, when he was persecuted and put on trial.

Let's not romantisize them in some kind of dream of perfect Orthodoxy. For that, I look only to the true saints.