St.Vincent of Lerins - Comments?

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Seraphim Reeves
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St.Vincent of Lerins - Comments?

Post by Seraphim Reeves »

[15.] Great then is the example of these same blessed men, an example plainly divine, and worthy to be called to mind, and medi- rated upon continually by every true Catholic, who, like the seven-branched candlestick, shining with the sevenfold light of the Holy Spirit, showed to posterity how thenceforward the audaciousness of profane novelty, in all the several rantings of error, might be crushed by the authority of hallowed antiquity.

Nor is there anything new in this? For it has always been the case in the Church, that the more a man is under the influence of religion, so much the more prompt is he to oppose innovations. Examples there are without number: but to be brief, we will take one, and that, in preference to others, from the Apostolic See, so that it may be clearer than day to every one with how great energy, with how great zeal, with how great earnestness, the blessed successors of the blessed apostles have constantly defended the integrity of the religion which they have once received.

[16.] Once on a time then, Agrippinus, bishop of Carthage, of venerable memory, held the doctrine-and he was the first who held it -that Baptism ought to be repeated, contrary to the divine canon, contrary to the rule of the universal Church, contrary to the customs and institutions of our ancestors. This innovation drew after it such an amount of evil, that it not only gave an example of sacrilege to heretics of all sorts, but proved an occasion of error to certain Catholics even.

When then all men protested against the novelty, and the priesthood everywhere, each as his zeal prompted him, opposed it, Pope Stephen of blessed memory, Prelate of the Apostolic See, in conjunction indeed with his colleagues but yet himself the foremost, withstood it, thinking it right, I doubt not, that as he exceeded all others in the authority of his place, so he should also in the devotion of his faith. In fine, in an epistle sent at the time to Africa, he laid down this rule: "Let there be no innovation-nothing but what has been handed down." For that holy and prudent man well knew that true piety admits no other rule than that whatsoever things have been faithfully received from our fathers the same are to be faithfully consigned to our children; and that it is our duty, not to lead religion whither we would, but rather to follow religion whither it leads; and that it is the part of Christian modesty and gravity not to hand down our own beliefs or observances to those who come after us, but to preserve and keep what we have received from those who went before us. What then was the issue of the whole matter?What but the usual and customary one? Antiquity was retained, novelty was rejected.

[17.] But it may be, the cause of innovation at that time lacked patronage. On the contrary, it had in its favor such powerful talent, such copious eloquence, such a number of partisans, so much resemblance to truth, such weighty support in Scripture (only interpreted in a novel and perverse sense), that it seems to me that that whole conspiracy could not possibly have been defeated, unless the sole cause of this extraordinary stir, the very novelty of what was so undertaken, so defended, so belauded, had proved wanting toit. In the end, what result, under God, had that same African Council or decree? None whatever. The whole affair, as though a dream, a fable, a thing of no possible account, was annulled, cancelled, and trodden underfoot.

[18.] And O marvellous revolution! The authors of this same doctrine are judged Catholics, the followers heretics; the teachers are absolved, the disciples condemned; the writers of the books will be children of the Kingdom, the defenders of them will have their portion in Hell. For who is so demented as to doubt that that blessed light among all holy bishops and martyrs, Cyprian, together with the rest of his colleagues, will reign with Christ; or, who on the other hand so sacrilegious as to deny that the Donatists and those other pests, who boast the authority of that council for their iteration of baptism, will be consigned to eternal fire with the devil?

(6th Chapter of St.Vincent of Lerins' Commonitorium)

Thoughts?

Seraphim

Justin Kissel

Post by Justin Kissel »

I don't know :? I read it the other night when the other fellow brought it up in another thread, and to be quite honest, I don't know what to make of it. I don't really have enough knowledge about the larger context, so I think I'd better not even hazard a speculative guess.

David
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The Guy from the Other Thread

Post by David »

Yes, this is the text I was referring to the other day on the thread about Baptism. It's one that has befuddled me a bit.
It seems pretty straightforward in what its saying and its embedded in a book whose sole purpose is to show us how to find the true Tradition in a patristic manner "what has been believed everywhere, always, and by all".
Thank you for posting this passage, I'm looking forward to hearing the insights anyone can offer.
God bless!
David

OrthodoxyOrDeath

Post by OrthodoxyOrDeath »

I just posteda linkto an letter written by Met. Philaret in another thread. In it he says: "St. Vincent of Lerins in his Commonitorium gave the criteria that what is truly Orthodox is that which is accepted by the Church " . . . always, by everyone, and everywhere."

Just a note.

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Seraphim Reeves
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Post by Seraphim Reeves »

OOD,

This is certainly an important note. However, it seems to introduce a problem - the west in general, seems to have never been fond of receiving the heterodox by Baptism, save those cases when the rite used in their former religion was formally "invalid" for any number of reasons.

Is this a misperception on my part regarding pre-schism, western practice?

Seraphim

OrthodoxyOrDeath

Post by OrthodoxyOrDeath »

Seraphim,

I have read the text, and grant it that on some days my elevator doesn't quite reach the top floor, but I don't see how this relates to the reception of converts.

It seems to me he is talking about baptizing someone twice, meaning two true baptisms.

Am I missing something?


With regard to the reception of converts in the West, it seems to me that their understanding seems to have changed with the influx and establishment of the barbarian peoples from the 5th century on. i would have to study this more before making any more comments though.

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Seraphim Reeves
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Post by Seraphim Reeves »

OOD,

Am I missing something?

The Agrippinus of Carthage mentioned in the text, was of the same school of thought as St.Cyprian; in fact the Synod of Iconium and St.Cyprian's teaching on this subject, owe much to said Bp.Agrippinus. Pope Stephen would end up coming against the two of them on this subject (though St.Vincent leaves out St.Cyprian in his discussion of this matter.)

Thus, the context is very clear; this is not simply an attack on the idea that one can truly Baptize a person twice, but an attack on the "Cyprianic" (I hate to categorize it this way, but I do so only for the sake of convienience) understanding that all schismatical and heretical Baptisms, taking place outside of the Church, are no Baptisms at all. As far as Pope Stephen was concerned (as it seems St.Vincent also was), the baptisms of schismatics, and also many classes of heretics, were genuine Baptisms, and as such could not be repeated. In principle both sides agreed a real Baptism could not be repeated - but the disagreement was as to whether or not the Baptisms of those somehow alienated from the Church (either by schism or heresy) were genuine. If yes, they could not be repeated - if not, then they had to be "repeated" (I get the impression could doesn't even fit into this discussion.)

Though his status as a teacher of the Church is argued by many (both for and against), Augustine of Hippo taught similarly on this topic (though as I'm sure Stephen and St.Vincent would have also agreed, he taught that while genuine, such Baptisms were received illicitly and were not beneficial to salvation so long as the persons bearing them remained alienated from the Church.)

This is the relevence of the 6th chapter (from the Commonitorium) that I provided.

Seraphim

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