Condemnation of Cyprian-ism

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Jean-Serge
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Condemnation of Cyprian-ism

Post by Jean-Serge »

I am trying to gather the original and translated documents of GOC- Chrysostomus when it condemned Cyprian and/or Cyprianism. I could find these two articles at these links in Greek. They seem to come from the newspaper of GOC:

The first one is of 1986, dealing with the deposition
http://www.gocnews.info/0001_archives/0 ... rianou.pdf

The second of 1998 is shorter, and deals with an anathema against ecumenism: http://www.gocnews.info/i-140207-002_Ec ... ATHEMA.pdf

Are there people able to read Greek? I want to understand which was the content of the condemnation in each case, and from this, on which base it was removed recently. So for now, it is more for those able to understand Greek. If people can point other documents about this period, they are welcome to do it.

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Re: Condemnation of Cyprian-ism

Post by Jean-Serge »

These key documents will very soon be translated to English for a better historical comprehension and as pieces for the current debate and interrogations regarding the union GOC - SiR and al.

Priidite, poklonimsja i pripadem ko Hristu.

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Re: Condemnation of Cyprian-ism

Post by jgress »

From what I can gather of the 1986 condemnation, Met Cyprian was not accused of "Cyprianism", but rather of Ecumenism. I.e. they hadn't identified Cyprianism itself as a heresy distinct from Ecumenism. I don't completely understand the accusation, since Met Cyprian never became an ecumenist as is commonly understood, i.e. someone who believed the Catholics, Protestants and Monophysites to be part of the Church. I assume what they meant was that, as Met Cyprian affirmed as a matter of faith that the Ecumenists were still in the Church, possessing sacramental Grace, until a condemnation by an Ecumenical or Pan-Orthodox synod, that itself was an expression of Ecumenism. In other words, he affirmed that heretics could still be in the Church, which is what the new calendarist Ecumenists proclaim with respect to the Papists and Protestants.

From what I've been learning about the dialog between the GOC and the SiR, the main ecclesiological point of contention was the Cyprianite teaching that heretics were definitely inside the Church. This position they've abandoned. What was not a point of contention was the idea that heretics might temporarily retain sacramental Grace after falling into heresy, until such a time as the Church definitively expelled the heretics from the Church and from grace. I understand this to mean that some difference of opinion on the authority of local synods to expel heretics is still permitted, though to be honest I'm not entirely clear on these distinctions. Anastasios seems to know more about what's going on than I do.

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Re: Condemnation of Cyprian-ism

Post by Jean-Serge »

jgress wrote:

From what I can gather of the 1986 condemnation, Met Cyprian was not accused of "Cyprianism", but rather of Ecumenism. I.e. they hadn't identified Cyprianism itself as a heresy distinct from Ecumenism. I don't completely understand the accusation, since Met Cyprian never became an ecumenist as is commonly understood, i.e. someone who believed the Catholics, Protestants and Monophysites to be part of the Church. I assume what they meant was that, as Met Cyprian affirmed as a matter of faith that the Ecumenists were still in the Church, possessing sacramental Grace, until a condemnation by an Ecumenical or Pan-Orthodox synod, that itself was an expression of Ecumenism. In other words, he affirmed that heretics could still be in the Church, which is what the new calendarist Ecumenists proclaim with respect to the Papists and Protestants.

From what I've been learning about the dialog between the GOC and the SiR, the main ecclesiological point of contention was the Cyprianite teaching that heretics were definitely inside the Church. This position they've abandoned. What was not a point of contention was the idea that heretics might temporarily retain sacramental Grace after falling into heresy, until such a time as the Church definitively expelled the heretics from the Church and from grace. I understand this to mean that some difference of opinion on the authority of local synods to expel heretics is still permitted, though to be honest I'm not entirely clear on these distinctions. Anastasios seems to know more about what's going on than I do.

For me, thinking that world orthodoxy is in the church is also ecumenism i.e, thnking that those out of the church are in the church. As you can see the 1986 condemnation is 10 pages (!); when they are translated, it will be clearer.

Priidite, poklonimsja i pripadem ko Hristu.

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Re: Condemnation of Cyprian-ism

Post by jgress »

I just remembered this is the public, non-polemical forum. My post was not polemical, but let's just be careful to keep our contributions informative rather than argumentative.

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Re: Condemnation of Cyprian-ism

Post by jgress »

Jean-Serge wrote:
jgress wrote:

From what I can gather of the 1986 condemnation, Met Cyprian was not accused of "Cyprianism", but rather of Ecumenism. I.e. they hadn't identified Cyprianism itself as a heresy distinct from Ecumenism. I don't completely understand the accusation, since Met Cyprian never became an ecumenist as is commonly understood, i.e. someone who believed the Catholics, Protestants and Monophysites to be part of the Church. I assume what they meant was that, as Met Cyprian affirmed as a matter of faith that the Ecumenists were still in the Church, possessing sacramental Grace, until a condemnation by an Ecumenical or Pan-Orthodox synod, that itself was an expression of Ecumenism. In other words, he affirmed that heretics could still be in the Church, which is what the new calendarist Ecumenists proclaim with respect to the Papists and Protestants.

From what I've been learning about the dialog between the GOC and the SiR, the main ecclesiological point of contention was the Cyprianite teaching that heretics were definitely inside the Church. This position they've abandoned. What was not a point of contention was the idea that heretics might temporarily retain sacramental Grace after falling into heresy, until such a time as the Church definitively expelled the heretics from the Church and from grace. I understand this to mean that some difference of opinion on the authority of local synods to expel heretics is still permitted, though to be honest I'm not entirely clear on these distinctions. Anastasios seems to know more about what's going on than I do.

For me, thinking that world orthodoxy is in the church is also ecumenism i.e, thnking that those out of the church are in the church. As you can see the 1986 condemnation is 10 pages (!); when they are translated, it will be clearer.

Sure, though that this is just your opinion. The question we are discussing is what the GOC thought and its reasons for accusing Met Cyprian of Ecumenism.

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Re: Condemnation of Cyprian-ism

Post by Jean-Serge »

I will post on my blog this weekend the translation of 1986 condemnation of Cyprian of Fili and the text of the anathemas. The translations were made by independent translators from Greek (Katarefousa). The posting will be announced here.

Priidite, poklonimsja i pripadem ko Hristu.

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