Syrian War perhaps revving up

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Barbara
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Syrian War perhaps revving up

Post by Barbara »

Eric Margolis reports :

http://ericmargolis.com/2014/03/war-in- ... intensify/

For those who don't care for his point of view, note the sentence where he questions
why these extremely radical groups are sponsored and armed to the teeth by the US,
Isr. and Saudi Arabia, where the natural ally for the first 2 would be
the SECULAR Syrian regime of both Assads, father and son.
I expanded his sentence into this paragraph to make it more clear.

The fact is, for those who don't have background in this area,
the Baath party [known only by Americans as vaguely connected with Saddam Hussein of Iraq]
was a socialist party founded by - guess whom ? -
yes, a Syrian Christian, Michel Aflak.
The Baathists, Arab NATIONALISTS have NOTHING TO DO WITH ISLAM, were interested
in unity of the Arab world based on Arab language. There was zero to do with religion
involved in their ideas - except the aim to stamp all religions out !
This is why Arabs of Christian background, such as Tariq Aziz under Saddam, were granted
ministerial posts and long remained in power under Baathist regimes.

So let's try to keep political realities of Syria's government for the past decades.
Needless to say, NONE of this is EVER explained by the usual "media".
They WANT North Americans to leap to simplistic and emotional conclusions.

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Lydia
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Re: Syrian War perhaps revving up

Post by Lydia »

Aflaq was a communist, who considered Islam to be the proof of Arab superiority.
He converted to Islam before he died and was given an Islamic funeral.
Islam is a totalitarian system that governs every aspect of human society. Religion and politics are intertwined. To say that Baathism wasn't religious is simplistic.
And Eric Margolis still supports terrorist actions against innocent people.

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Barbara
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Re: Syrian War perhaps revving up

Post by Barbara »

Hee hee, how many times did you travel to Syria during the regime of Hafez Assad, Lydia ?!
Personal experience would help you understand what the Baathist Party was and is about.
Islam is totally unrelated to Arab Nationalism.
Even the definition of an Arab - do you know that without looking it up ?
It has zero to do with Islam.

Did you find the information on Michel Aflaq on wikipedia ? I had never heard that he converted to Islam.
One would imagine his Muslim name would have gone down in history if that were the case.
I don't know either way, as i never heard that.

You are using North American anti-Middle East paradigms for your ideas.

You must have studied what Arab Nationalism IS to grasp why the Baath succeeded amongst Iraqis and
Syrians. Not to say that there were not coups and that the Baath rule was forced on the two neighbors.
But this was a very powerful idea from the Maghreb to Mesopotamia.
You have to know about the history of this part of the world to appreciate what any of these concepts mean.

It is a pity that nothing is ever taught in schools except - at best - a little modern history of Egypt.
Even then, Nasser was likewise a nationalist. But aside from his short-lived union with Syria,
he did not concentrate on the lands beyond Egypt's borders as much as he did revolutionizing -
and secularizing - Egyptian society.
Egypt of course had been a monarchy before, under King Farouk. So opposite ideas had to
be inculcated in the population. But these were foreign ideas and were accompanied by a close
alliance with Soviet Russia. Yet, perhaps you would scramble to pin the blame on Islam for
a terrible rule by Nasser !

I assure you : Arab Nationalism and Islam are ANTITHETICAL. Muslims heartily oppose a nationalist
ideology for that reason.
Conversely, Arab Nationalists despise Islam as backward and retrograde, holding society back from
glorious secular achievements [none of which ever happened anyway. Saddam's Iraq was by far and away
the most advanced of any Arab country, but with all the gigantic oil riches at his disposal, that
was not a tremendous accomplishment to build up Iraq's infrastructure and
give its citizens a decent standard of living. However, Syria and Egypt under nationalist rule yielded few results.]

Where Islam focuses on the entire world, as a unit, and looks down upon the idea of nation=states as
supreme forms of government, the Baathists sought to undermine Islam in order to gain their goals of
building up Arab countries without religion, by subtituting a flag-waving party and a dictator to be
worshipped instead of God. Maybe a shade like Hitler's agenda....he didn't favor ANY religion, and
neither did either of the Baathist neighbors. All 3 leaders engineered a cult of personality to replace
the natural instinct to venerate God.

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Lydia
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Re: Syrian War perhaps revving up

Post by Lydia »

In the past, one person’s life summarized the life of a nation. Today the life of the whole nation in its new revival should become a detailed exposition of the life of its great man. Muhammad was all the Arabs. Let all the Arabs be Muhammad today.
This is a quote from Aflaq.
You know what that is, Barbara? It's Islam in a nutshell. Muhammed as the perfect example.
How could any Christian speak in those terms?

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Re: Syrian War perhaps revving up

Post by jgress »

Arab nationalism of the Nasserist or Baathist variety was never anti-Islamic. They were anti-Islamist, for sure, but they definitely saw Islam as an important cultural expression of the Arab people. Think about it: if they were anti-Islamic, how would they ever get the support of the vast majority of Arabs who were Muslim? Arab nationalism is not pure secularism as so many seem to think.

Historically, Arab nationalist governments have only been somewhat more tolerant of Christianity than traditional Islamic governments. Baathist Syria, for example, does not impose a jizya tax on Christians, but it does make conversion from Islam to Christianity a criminal offense; conversion from Christianity to Islam, on the other hand, is perfectly legal. The reasons Christians supported nationalism was simply because the only other viable alternative was Islamism, which would be even worse for them. There has never been significant support for liberalism and freedom for all religions in Islamic countries.

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Lydia
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Re: Syrian War perhaps revving up

Post by Lydia »

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/ ... 3420140401
Here is a story that claims the Syrian conflict is based on Islamic apocalyptic beliefs whose source is the Sunni-Shiite split and is based on predictions from the Hadith.

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