The Saint Euphrosynos Cafe

Moreover, our modern reality presents most women not as nuns, old women and children, but women with the same mores as men. But it is good that the Church presents us with a means of modesty and a model for right living.

How Christian men, women and children dress should surely be driven by modesty? I remember the elderly Bishop Nikodem of Richmond being teased by some young male believers who pointed out a young woman in a Mary Quant miniskirt. His reaction was predictable. Later the same young men pointed out a young woman in a maxi skirt, asking, "Vladika, is that better?". "No, too extreme", he replied.

There are amongst us, and I sadly write as one who has had to work with sexual deviants, men who will interpret anything as an invite, even a fleeting smile. Sexually provocative dress should have no place amongst us, male or female, but extremes are perhaps going too far. Moslem women so dressed in Egypt and elsewhere regularly are assaulted by deviant males, so I do not see maxi skirts as a realistic defence of women's virtue. The deviants and opportunists need no provocation, sadly.

StephenS wrote:

How Christian men, women and children dress should surely be driven by modesty? I remember the elderly Bishop Nikodem of Richmond being teased by some young male believers who pointed out a young woman in a Mary Quant miniskirt. His reaction was predictable. Later the same young men pointed out a young woman in a maxi skirt, asking, "Vladika, is that better?". "No, too extreme", he replied.

There are amongst us, and I sadly write as one who has had to work with sexual deviants, men who will interpret anything as an invite, even a fleeting smile. Sexually provocative dress should have no place amongst us, male or female, but extremes are perhaps going too far. Moslem women so dressed in Egypt and elsewhere regularly are assaulted by deviant males, so I do not see maxi skirts as a realistic defense of women's virtue. The deviants and opportunists need no provocation, sadly.

Stephen, in your work, did these men express a hatred of women? I think that would be the common denominator no matter what a woman wore: mini-skirt, long skirt, nun habit or burka.

They (I'm limiting it to the North American culture) obviously had a very negative experience, in their youth, that slowly grew (by the help of demonic intercession) and developed into hatred (which is evil). In response to their feelings of inadequacy, they attack women in order to feel empowered. It's not about sex, it's about feeling powerful in the most cowardly way; attacking someone they feel is weaker than them, physically. I doubt they would try to attack a woman that they saw could defend themselves. In the Middle East, it is just the way they are taught to view women as nothing. But, this is still an evil influence.

All in all, it is the effect of evil in a person's soul.

The received wisdom among professionals and feminists is that this behaviour is about power. Not a simple area. I have men who have raped other men or boys while seemingly basically attracted to women, so that theory fits. Some I found simply have a lack of boundaries and an appalling lack of empathy toward others. Or as a colleague asked a bout one fellow's sexual orientation replied, "Haven't a clue, but I wouldn't trust him with my office rug".

This is a distasteful and difficult area. Like you it is certainly an arena that the Devil and his cohorts will play havoc, I feel. Indeed in the past I was criticised for expressing a view that X was filled with evil rather than psychologically or mentally disordered. But nothing has shaken that view. Nor does a society obsessed with sex, sexual images and the sexualisation of children help. Over here it is reported that a research project into the effects of pornography had to shelved because no one under twenty years of age could be found who had not been exposed to pornography. Sadly exposure to this material in early teens does appear linked to poor social boundaries and unacceptable sexualised behaviour in those exposed to it. This is one of the curses of the web. How the Devil must laugh.

I think what helps keep people civil with immodesty is the realization that even if you can see, you don't necessarily have the right to touch. Yes, this makes the conversation an exercise in succumbing to the times, but even from an Orthodox perspective, just because you covet doesn't mean you can have or that it will ever be yours so keep your mind on Christ and leave people to work out their salvation as best they can.

StephenS, that work sounds dreadful !
Frightening to even think about.

How to handle the gross people you work with ? Isn't it nauseating ??
How can you deal with it ?

Good points, however.

Bishop Nikodim of Richmond thought a "maxi-skirt" was "too extreme" ? I am surprised !
I don't think so.

I remember though hearing that term, it was so current in maybe the 60s.
It sounds silly to us today.

Of course, few women wear lengthy skirts, or even skirts at all, choosing jeans which look tacky and unkempt instead.

Did you ever meet Bp Nikodim yourself, StephenS ? Was he a good old Rocor Bishop ?

Vladika Nikodim was a gentle but very strict in many ways, especially as regards the so-called MP. I enjoyed his company very much, always encouraging. He was a small man of Kalmyk origins. He introduced me to HTM's Psalter, which I have loved ever since. Yes, old school ROCOR and remembered with fondness.

He would felt, I am sure, greatly betrayed by the apostasy of so many leading their flocks into the arms of the pseudo MP.

As to work I will always recall the pastoral advice of the saintly Metropolitan Philaret to those working in the fields of mental health and psychological disorder to take especial care of our spiritual health.

Both were bishops I greatly respected, who knew how to be good neighbours to the non-Orthodox without comprising the Truth.

As to women's clothes, as a man I hesitate to comment. Men and women should dress modestly and without ostentation and avoid any sense of cross dressing in line with Church teaching. Jeans are work men's clothes in my opinion. My pet hates are chaps unable to wear trousers properly instead choosing to ape 'gangstas' and the highly sexualised dressing of children and teenagers. This trend will spawn terrible fruit but sadly only a few will listen. And here I hold the media, fashion leaders and parents to blame, all though parents can find themselves fighting an uphill struggle in this particular arena.