humility and self justification

[Olympiada]

I do not know how to reply to your sentence that exerting myself is wrong...

You misunderstood what I said. What I meant was that it is normal for those who have been trying to control YOU in the past to react negatively to you when YOU try to take BACK control over yourself.

Oh you mean like domestic violence or what just happened to me? I guess so. The thing is, I never gave this person control over me, so there is nothing to take back, unless I misunderstood what they did to me. This is not something I can publish.

I think you are RIGHT to take back control over yourself. No one should have control over you but you.

I never gave up control over myself. But you sound like an American and that kind of thinking from a man may have gotten me into trouble in the first place, not my thinking, but the one I had united with, who thinks like that.

You have no idea of the influence of what people have posted on the internet has done to me...

Why do you let what others say affect/influence you? Why do you CARE what a bunch of strangers think of you? Their opinions have no control over you unless you allow them to have control over you.

Tom, you have no idea what has happened to me and I can not publicize it, ok? It is not strangers that have done this to me, although they may have indirectly. I have no idea. I just know that I can not conform to the norms of many groups, so as soon I receive the first flame I see I can meet the norms of that group, or person, so I leave.

Do what I do. Reject their opinions. See them for what they are -simply opinions from people who are not in position to make informed judgements/opinions.

It is not about that, it is about group norms, and if I can not meet group norms, I should not be in a group. I am not talking about private correspondence. I am talking about small group communication. I studied it in college. I know what I am writing about.

I think it is better to write in your underwear then to fornicate although writing in your underwear may excite you which is a problem.

Why is it a problem?

Oh boy. Do you what is the first thing that happens to a man when he gets sexually excited? You must know. I think and have been told that my writing has caused many men to get sexually excited. That is not "good" or "normal" for a Christian.

That is how I raised. I do need strictness because I am very mentally gifted and I need structure as do all highly mentally gifted. I can not stand chaos it destroys me.

You think so? Then why are you fighting the strictness that the Church is trying to impose on you?

I am not. I have submitted, however, I still have a life in the world. Now writing with my real name, I have 13 years of recovery work under my belt. Writing with my Christian name? A cult experience and an abusive marriage. What name do you think I should use? I know what name I should use.

I have been returned to the world as of today and I am in the world now.

Good. This world is a gift that we have been given. Revel in this world. Enjoy it. Partake of its pleasures. God made it for us to enjoy. He gave us life to enjoy and learn. It is up to us to either make it a blessing or a curse. It is our choice.

What? Revel in this world? Do you not know what it says about reveling in the Scriptures? Pleasures? Oh Lord...that is the very thing that someone thinks I did to get me in serious trouble, more harsh than any other person I know whose sin I can not judge. I have been cursed, Tom, you have no idea.

And when you are not wrong?

Then you are not wrong. And do not let others convince you that you are wrong. Reject them and their stupid judgements and conclusions.

Tom! You must not be a communicant of the Orthodox Church. Why are you writing to me?
Live Life!

Reject the teachings of those who tell you that we are to suffer in this life. It's total nonsense made up by those who are miserable people and want to drag everyone else down to share their pitiful existance.

Reject the teachings? I can not reject my teacher for he has already rejected me. There is no where else for me to go. I think we should cease this correspondence.

[GOCPriestMark]

Reject the teachings of those who tell you that we are to suffer in this life. It's total nonsense made up by those who are miserable people and want to drag everyone else down to share their pitiful existance.

Well Tom, your words seem to reject the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ who, because of His love, suffered for our sake. I just lost a whole list of quotes from the New Testament regarding suffering, (in a 'physical memory dump'), but instead of trying to find them again to post, I refer everyone who wishes to learn more to this article: The Inevitability of Suffering - by New Martyr Archbishop John of Riga

[TomS]

There is no where else for me to go. I think we should cease this correspondence.

As you wish.

[joasia]

Atlanta wrote:

I am tired of trying to be Orthodox.

If you were "trying" then you really never understood what it meant to be Orthodox. It's not a state of mind...it's a faithful conviction..something that a person cannot deny, because they know that it is the ultimate truth. You never believed in it, so why waste our time? You obviously never cared for it...you just wanted to stir up trouble, for your own little pleasures.

"Tired of trying to be Orthodox".. how pathetic is that statement. That's like saying, you are tired of believing in Christ's teachings. How can somebody be tired of it unless they never believed in it in the first place? When you believe in it, then you accept the struggles. But, you obviously don't have the faith. I hope one day you will find it.

[joasia]

Tom wrote:

Reject the teachings of those who tell you that we are to suffer in this life. It's total nonsense made up by those who are miserable people and want to drag everyone else down to share their pitiful existance.

Does that include the saints? They lived in great spiritual union with God(the state of theosis), yet they expressed the neccesity of spiritual cleansing through suffering of the flesh...which includes physical and psychological circumstances. It's not so much the suffering that is considered, but the acceptance of the suffering. That's the key...the acceptance, because to accept that, means to accept God's will in our lives...that is the essence of our faith. To believe that what we consider suffering is really a means for our salvation, by God...but we don't understand it. Accepting it because we believe in God(The Holy Trinity), is the faith. But, first we have to believe in the Triune God who is the Creator of us all.

And Tom..when have you ever heard of an athlete that has made it to the Olympics who never exercised for it before? It takes lots of sweat and tears and pain to become physically fit in order to become eligible for the Olympics. Now this is a physical example...how much more different is that for a person who becomes a spiritual atlete, like the saints?

What I'm saying is that it doesn't come easy when it's physical training and it certainly doesn't come easy when it's spiritual training. Spiritual training is alot more difficult than physical...spiritual is higher than physical.

But, you really don't have the right to tell her to "reject" the teachings of what she is told...that puts you in a position of spiritual authority and you don't have that right.

Yes, I agree that there are priest, monastics and laity that try to tell us what to do. And they have their own personal concept about it...but don't confuse that with the pure faith of Orthodoxy...it is taught by Christ, passed down to the Apostles and kept pure in the faith...even if there are those who would try to twist it because of their own psychological imbalance. First of all, a person would have to believe in the Faith.

[Olympiada]

Atlanta wrote:

I am tired of trying to be Orthodox.

If you were "trying" then you really never understood what it meant to be Orthodox. It's not a state of mind...it's a faithful conviction..something that a person cannot deny, because they know that it is the ultimate truth. You never believed in it, so why waste our time? You obviously never cared for it...you just wanted to stir up trouble, for your own little pleasures

.

You sound just like my, former?, bishop. Are you close to him or something. You are so wrong, just like him. How can a person be Orthodox and be what I am? How dare you write that way to me, I never believed it, how can you look inside my soul? You are so wrong. You must be somebody writing under a false name, you sound like you have been privy to a private letter, yes, no?
Stir up trouble? Give me a break. You are wrong. My little pleasures? What pleasure? I am convinced you are using a false name, are you?

"Tired of trying to be Orthodox".. how pathetic is that statement. That's like saying, you are tired of believing in Christ's teachings. How can somebody be tired of it unless they never believed in it in the first place? When you believe in it, then you accept the struggles. But, you obviously don't have the faith. I hope one day you will find it.

I don't have to please you. Who are you? No, I am not tired of believing in Christ's teachings. I am tired of trying to meet my, former?, bishop's standards. You are wrong wrong wrong. You have no idea what happened to me...Wrong wrong wrong.

The struggles? You have no idea.
Please stop writing to me.
Atlanta

[TomS]

Does that include the saints?

Yes.

That's the key...the acceptance, because to accept that, means to accept God's will in our lives...that is the essence of our faith.

Wrong. God gives us the will to make our lives either happy or miserable. It is a sin against God to "live a life of suffering". It is a rejection of all the wonderful and beautiful things he has provided to us in this life.

Now this is a physical example...how much more different is that for a person who becomes a spiritual atlete, like the saints?

Babies are naturally happy. The lost innocence of this joy is something that is learned. This is what is evil.

So, if you are saying that we have to train to be miserable, then I agree with you. if you are saying that this is what is required in order to reach theosis, then I reject that completely.

But, you really don't have the right to tell her to "reject" the teachings of what she is told...that puts you in a position of spiritual authority and you don't have that right.

I certainly do have the right. And since I am expressing my opinion and not hiding behind "scripture" or the teachings of another "spiritual guide", then I'm not using authority.