WCC

[AndyHolland]

Love, by its nature, is a resemblance to God,insofar as this is humanly possible. In its activity it is inebriation of the soul. Its distinctive character is to be a fountain of faith, an abyss of patience, a sea of humility.--St. John Klimakos

If we wish to be a fountain of faith, an abyss of patience and a sea of humilty, how should we act and behave?

At the first ecumenical counsel pagan philosophers were invited by Constantine the Great. One was spoken to by a simple Bishop who gave only his confession of faith in a true spirit of love, and the man converted! Think about that for a moment - pray about it.

You can read the Fathers for hours and not read the word Orthodox - so too with Holy Scripture.

The Archbishop specifically uses the word Church refering to the Orthodox Church and church communities to refer to the gathering. For example:

'The transformative journey of our church communities cannot occur on the basis of criteria occasionally proposed by fashion and vogue, but through the guidance of "the Gospel of grace." ... The Church is obliged to remain at every time and in every place what its essence is: namely, the Body of Christ...'

Reading the entire document in context, the Archbishop very carefully and gently chides modernism and all other worldly concepts of church, while skillfully bringing the reader in towards Church with Holy Scripture. His discourse is gentle, kind, patient and humble.

We should be patient and kind with one another and we should discern that others can respectfully disagree in non-judgmental fashion. Let Jesus judge, we can follow the example of the simple Bishops of the first counsel, and just speak about the true faith.

The Archbishop seems to be following a gentle course.

andy holland
sinner

[Kollyvas]

What you have just written is a thoroughly unedifying apology for branch theory. Show us the Fathers and Canons which attest to such puhalo reasoned views. Where are they? ECUMENICAL COUNCILS ARE CONVOCATIONS OF THE ORTHODOX CHURCH, not a protestant para-church organization. Orthodox have agreed that "their ecumenical involvement was a matter of Orthodox witness." We have quoted the wcc docs which say that the wcc, NOT THE ORTHODOX CHURCH, "will be the vehicle for uniting separated Christians in truth." That Albanian embarassment is a member of the central committee affirming that statement. NOT MENTIONING ORTHODOXY MEANS HE'S NOT WITNESSING ORTHODOXY but rather by participating on the central committee of this para-church organization, HE IS ABDICATING THE SOVEREIGN TRUTH OF ORTHODOXY in place of the ecclesiology of the wcc WHICH IS STATED "branch theory." His platitudes are used not to promote Orthodoxy but as ideological building blocks of the wcc--ie throwing pearls to swine. That is heretical. Your insistence on asserting moral equivalence between Orthodoxy and heresy is blasphemously ignorant. Troll with the ecumenists whose air you breathe.
R

[AndyHolland]

What you have just written is a thoroughly unedifying apology for branch theory.

How so? Could you please specify? I am very serious - how have I erred specifically?

What I intended was a defense of someone whose only work I have read that seems to be a font of faith and an abyss of patience.

I do not believe in the branch theory. Kollyvas accuses me falsely. If Kollyvas accuses me falsely, who else might be falsely accused? My conscience is very clear on this point.

I forgive Kollyvas of course - but it needs to be pointed out that I do not believe the branch theory, nor do I believe in judging for myself for I know myself to be the worst sinner.

I fear that I may have disturbed the peace of others by stirring up a hornets nest of hatred. However, we must be very careful not to lightly accuse others.

andy holland
sinner

[Kollyvas]

For one, you equate the wcc with Ecumenical Councils of the Orthodox Church repeatedly...You think statements made to the wcc supporting its vocation while ignoring Orthodoxy are sound. I ground what I write with documentation--read the evidence and educate yourself. It's not good to mix Orthodoxy with what you believe. You write as an ecumenist heretic.
R

[AndyHolland]

For one, you equate the wcc with Ecumenical Councils of the Orthodox Church repeatedly

Not to my recollection. Where specifically? How specifically? I simply stated that a pagan philosopher invited to the 1st Ecumenical council was converted by a positive statement on the Christian (Orthodox) Faith. At the first ecumenical counsel pagan philosophers were invited by Constantine the Great. One was spoken to by a simple Bishop who gave only his confession of faith in a true spirit of love, and the man converted! Think about that for a moment - pray about it.

It is a willfull extrapolation to assert that I am equating an Ecumenical Council of the Orthodox Church with the wcc! I am stating a simple fact of history!

You constantly assert what I think, or what I believe. Where do you get off doing that? Is that more of the publican or is it of the pharisee? Please read carefully.

Concerning branch theory, Father John Matusiak has an excellent exposition aligned with what I think in response to a question. Please see:
http://www.oca.org/QA.asp?ID=27&SID=3
Make sure to read the RESPONSE - I do not believe the QUESTION. For example:

"... it is a statement of fact that Orthodoxy indeed rejects the "branch theory," for very good reason -- namely that not all who refer to themselves as "Christian" possess the fullness of Christian truth. To say that "it's all the same, there's only one Christ, there's a variety of different ways to express our belief in Him," is to flatly ignore the history of Christianity, specifically the first two Ecumenical Councils, which discerned once and for all the truth concerning the person and mission, the humanity and divinity, of Jesus Christ -- and which, incidentally, in no way subscribes to the branch theory..."

I can believe what the good Father wrote and believe also the Archbishop's remarks addressed to the WCC without confusion.

andy holland
sinner

[moschonisi]

... Note also that Orthodox do not join in joint prayers or services at these meetings, nor are they permitted to vote on matters unless all of the Orthodox agree.

Here you go:
Christian Action Can Change the World, WCC 9th Assembly Told
Thousands gathered at the World Council of Churches (WCC) 9th Assembly to hear an opening prayer calling upon Christians worldwide to fight poverty as an absolute priority.

Posted: Wednesday, February 15 , 2006, 17:06 (UK)

Thousands gathered at the World Council of Churches (WCC) 9th Assembly to hear an opening prayer calling upon Christians worldwide to fight poverty as an absolute priority.

Archbishop Anastasios (right) and Rev Samuel Kobia led the WCC 9th Assembly in Porto Alegre, Brazil as it opened Feb 14th, 2006. (WCC)

The message was delivered by Archbishop Anastasios of Tirana and All Albania to all who testify themselves as followers of Jesus in Porto Alegre, Brazil, on Feb 14th.

...

[CorpusChristi]

"Archbishop Anastasios (right) and Rev Samuel Kobia led the WCC 9th Assembly in Porto Alegre, Brazil as it opened Feb 14th, 2006. (WCC) "

those of you in Traditionalist jurisdictions of the Orthodox Church have probally heard these directions before- if you find yourself for some reason gathered with heretics and prayer is brought up, LEAD IT, as now they are praying with YOU ..