Moderator: Mark Templet
Jean-Serge wrote:Now the MP could have back its Apsotolical succession from ROCOR if he repented, which is not occuring... So ROCOR will lose its apostolical succession due to its falling in the MP mistakes...
Dear Svyati Bozhe, Svyati Krepky, Svyati.....I mean Jean-Serge. Thank you for clearing that up.
Jean-Serge wrote:Thinking there is apostolical succession only because the ordination was made by bishops whose origins can be traced to the Apostles is wrong and a catholic thinking. Thus the heretics (Arians, Monophysites, Catholics etc) bishops would have apostolical succession which is wrong because they lost it due to their heresy...
Now the MP could have back its Apsotolical succession from ROCOR if he repented, which is not occuring... So ROCOR will lose its apostolical succession due to its falling in the MP mistakes...
That is what I meant. The MP does indeed from the "Roman Catholic"/scholastic persecptive have apostolic sucession. However from the Orthodox/Patristic one they dont. Only one who have the Spirit can "pass" it on to others. I should have been more clearer. Please forgive me.
Theophan.
Cat.Timothy. wrote:Jean-Serge wrote:Thinking there is apostolical succession only because the ordination was made by bishops whose origins can be traced to the Apostles is wrong and a catholic thinking. Thus the heretics (Arians, Monophysites, Catholics etc) bishops would have apostolical succession which is wrong because they lost it due to their heresy...
Now the MP could have back its Apsotolical succession from ROCOR if he repented, which is not occuring... So ROCOR will lose its apostolical succession due to its falling in the MP mistakes...
That is what I meant. The MP does indeed from the "Roman Catholic"/scholastic persecptive have apostolic sucession. However from the Orthodox/Patristic one they dont. Only one who have the Spirit can "pass" it on to others. I should have been more clearer. Please forgive me.
Theophan.
Perhaps it is Roman Catholic standards by which you weigh the possibility of grace in the Moscow Patriarchate.
Upon which ecumenical decrees of the Church do you base your assumptions? Which universal council has condemned the Moscow Patriarchate? Which local council even?
Have you ever been inside a Russian Church, in Russia?
[quote="pjhatalaHave you ever been inside a Russian Church, in Russia?[/quote]
I was in the Moscow Patriarchate for a good while in mostly Russian parish. I would presume that is close enough.
The question is have you?
Yes. Local councils of the Catacomb church condemned the Moscow Patriarchate. Also the condemnations of Renovationism and Ecumenism should be taken into consideration.
Theophan.
Cat.Timothy. wrote:I was in the Moscow Patriarchate for a good while in mostly Russian parish. I would presume that is close enough.
The question is have you?
Yes. Local councils of the Catacomb church condemned the Moscow Patriarchate. Also the condemnations of Renovationism and Ecumenism should be taken into consideration.
Theophan.
The answer is...I have- in Russia. If it's not grace that is experienced in these churches, then the devil has stepped up his game. Which councils do you refer to? I'm guessing it wasn't a council related to the catacomb Church which printed the Epistle of 1962 which states "We cannot imitate those ignorant ones who stupidly affirm: 'Those are not churches, they are demon's temples, those who attend them defile themselves and are deprived of saving grace,' and other such foolish sayings."
Which condemnations of "renovationism"? Please define "renovationism" and how it is heretical.
