Holy Women Of Orthodoxy Unite!

[Justin Kissel]

John

You are using the word "renovationist" in a different way that I did, so please don't imply that I would consider the Greek Orthodox Church renovationist. You yourself admit that you don't fully know what "role" the Greeks have planned for deaconesses, and neither do I. My labeling of Nathaniel's post as renovationist was because it sounded exactly like the liberal, feminist stuff I've read. It is renovationist because it doesn't care a whit about it's historical usage, and only wants to restore the deaconess because of political and social reasons. It is not the actual bringing back of deaconesses that I consider to be renovationist, but the theologically-blind ramble into such a restoration as Nathaniel seems to support. Then again, pretty much all of his writings have a touch of hysteria and exaggeration, so perhaps I should be used to his rhetorical style and mindset by now.

However, regarding the one specific point you brought up against reinstating deaconesses, I really have no clue how many adults convert to Orthodoxy in Greece each year. However, I wouldn't doubt that in a country of 11 million people, and an additional 1 million immigrants, some would not be Orthodox, and might be baptized some day.

[ioannis]

Justin,

Well that is actually quite true. Before the ID card change, many Albanians were converting in order to get "Orthodox" on their ID card - this had benefits in Greece. My cousin is a priest with the state church and has brought many Albanians in their church this way.

But I of course support your position wholeheartedly and agree with what you just said. And might I add it is not just quite refreshing to see your continuing conservative views, but lateley I also sense a certain conviction that wasn't there before. Right or wrong, I think an honest conviction about church matters is somehow linked to faith and real Christian love. But that is just my opinion, which I am sure you care about.

[Nathaniel Kapner]

Dear Justin

The paucity of male leadership in the Traditionalist Orthodox
Church is alarming.It threatens to disturb any Orthodox soul
who really cares about Christ's holy Church.

I recently posted, "The Silent Voice of Deacon Basil (rocor)" This
story about ROCOR Deacon Basil Yakimov is a testimony of what
happens to a real man in the OC Orthodox Church - he gets gagged,
dragged, and stabbed. And that by his own bishops and fellow
clergymen.

Thus, the only answer we have left is to turn to the women to
provide the leadership necessary to rebuild the Church that has been
in decline since "he that restraineth" was "taken out of the way."
That happened on July 16, 1918 when Holy Tzar Nicholas and the Royal
Family were shot by the Bolsheviks.

I grew up as a Jew, and the Jews were on theforefront
of the women's liberation movement. Of course "feminism"
is in the Bible. Proverbs 31 might be where the movement
got off the ground: "She goes out to inspect a field and buys it.
With her earnings she plants a vineyard." If we read between
the lines, a lot of "bread-winner" things are going on here.
And then of course, only a Golda Meir can come out of t
he Hebraic world-view. What many do not realize or do
not realize, this same "Hebraic world-view" did not suddenly
stop in the year 1 AD. Nor 33 AD either.

We are experiencing what the prophet Amos alerted us to not so long
ago, "My people are perishing for lack of knowledge." I respond,
"the Protestants are growing for a wealth of knowledge." They know
the Scriptures, they study it, they memorize it, they have
fellowship dinners around it.

In closing do you know of the "traditionist" Grand Dutchess Elizabeth
Feodorovna? [1864-1918]The Grand Dutchess Elizabeth was German born,
was the older sister of the Tzarina Alexandria, and her grandmother
was Queen Victoria of England. The Holy New Martyr Elizabeth married
the Grand Duke Sergey of the Romanov dynasty. Sergey was Tzar
Nicholas II.s uncle. After Grand Duke Sergey was assasinated in 1905
outside of the Kremlin, the Grand Dutchess Elizabeth started "The
Mary and Martha Convent" in Moscow. It grew quickly as it was
dedicated to combining "service" [Martha/diaconia] and contemplation
[Mary] In 1908 she had the "ancient-orthodox" vision to revive the
Traditional office of "Deaconess." She wrote a short Treatise on the
history and functions of the "deaconess" but she was soon accused of
infusing "Protestant" sentiments into the Church. The problem again
amongst "the Orthodox" was "lack of knowledge."

Nathanael