Address to ROCA, by Bishop Gregory

[Грешник]

Dear Nevsky,

Although your words by themselves were very engulfing, the meaning of your post seems to escape me. Could you please elaborate on the meaning of your statements regarding Bp. Grgory?

Thank you,
Juvenaly J.M. Martinka

[priestmark]

Unconvincing how? Is there something substantially incorrect about what Vladyka wrote, regarding what the ROCOR leadership is now up to, or the real situation of the MP?

Facts - even true facts - woven by manipulation do not make a comforting fabric. There is a huge context that you (and Joe and apparently Nicholas and others) who are new to Orthodoxy cannot yet imagine. We convert priests are wary of bringing it up for fear of scandalizing - and the russians see this as irrelevant - so the ignorance continues.

Apparently many prefer to dive in head first rather than listen for the warnings of others. I pray they won't hit the rocks. But now it is time to make sure the warnings are shrill enough to be noticed.

'We are the only choice, the remnant!' This only-pure-church rhetoric may play well to inexperienced ears, but it is really sad. That only true church changes for Bp Gregory quite often and with each new affilliation the old true church gets condemned. Who is the standard?

You can take the monk out of Boston... and you can take any mention of Boston out of the monk's history, but...

If you really want to get a feel for the other side of things (which I don't really recommend - instead just step back from being used as a mouthpiece and pray instead - even attend Church) search for Vladimir Moss (who nails the HOCNA similtude) or Nicholas Candela on orthodox-tradition starting just about exactly 1 year ago up to feb or so of this year.

I suggest that here on this forum Nicholas consider banning such self-promotion of one's particular affiliations (aka proselytizing) through "Announcements" and using the undiscerning zeal of people who have no experience (but never-the-less are guiding new people such as Ben who may not even realize the depth of inexperience speaking to him). But I also suggest that Nicholas himself stop promoting (now on the ORTHODOX list too) this Annoucement. If this forum is to be a place for proxy interactions with a new arm's-length elder, I know I am not going to be the only one tempted to run away - but for the abandonment of new inquirers. I don't understand this unless there is some misguided idea that ROAC should be considered as some unquestionably safe refuge against apostasy. The best spin I can put on it is that Nicholas, who, if he is like a typical ROCA parishioner, probably never hears a discouraging word (shhh! ROCA is sometimes like being Home, Home on the Range) wanted to bring in other people to work the dialectic and come to synthesis about Bp Gregory? Hence my "itchin' for a fight?" reference.

o.M

[Грешник]

Father Bless,

Father Mark,

I apppologize for my ignorance here, but I lost you about 2 or 3 lines through your post. I am not exactly sure what you are getting at. I can only assume you are saying, with many words, "Look (and pray) before you leap." But even that at best is an assumption. Please fill in the blanks for me so that I can understand where you are coming from on this.

Juvenaly J.M. Martinka

[Lounger]

Bless, Father.

Nicholas, who, if he is like a typical ROCA parishioner, probably never hears a discouraging word (shhh! ROCA is sometimes like being Home, Home on the Range) wanted to bring in other people to work the dialectic and come to synthesis about Bp Gregory?

I think this is why it was done too. Either that or to get people to come here and buy the Christmas ornaments in the Cafe's store!

[Jakub]

All these arguments between the different factions of Orthodoxy will cause possible converts to stop and rethink their paths, there are too many derrogatory remarks made against all, how then can the Church be one ?

james

[Seraphim Reeves]

Jakub,

All these arguments between the different factions of Orthodoxy will cause possible converts to stop and rethink their paths, there are too many derrogatory remarks made against all, how then can the Church be one ?

The problem my friend, is that we are not all "one." True unity between persons (the Church of Christ never loses Her unity - this is an ecumenistic error), can only occur with the true confession of faith - and the ecumenists have been undermining just this, for the better part of the 20th century (and with particular earnestness during the last half of said century.)

You are right, that they have created a very terrible scandal for many people looking to become Orthodox. But what is the solution? To pretend they're not heretics, that we're all one big happy family? Frankly, they created the scandal, not those who have the gumption to observe that the emperor is naked.

Seraphim

[Monk George]

O Lord, if we do not humble ourselves, Thou dost not cease to humble us.
St. Issac of Syria

The persistent accusation that Bishop Gregory's confession of Faith changes with the wind is another facet of the deception propagated by today's multitude. The fallen human soul always seeks to find the shortcomings of others, real or imagined. But in so doing, God takes from this person the ability to realize and correct his own sins, which are often identical, if not worse, than the subject of his "objective" analysis. That is why we see no blushing in the reponses of late, from those who have accepted, tolerated, taught and propagated heretical teachings for ten years and more.

Rather than thank Bishop Gregory for writing a compassionate and truthful epistle, the adherents of the Cyprianite ecclesiology bury it in obscure criticism or irrational emotionalism.

Cyprianism at it core is a position which takes no position. It seeks to hide under a guise of love, while at the same time it crawls in cowardice. The only time it raises its head for a rapacious response is when it encounters conviction. It cannot tolerate what it has failed to attain to. It paints its opponents in any color it is able, covering its own shamelessness with the rags of vainglory and self conceit.

This is why Bishop Gregory is the most feared clergyman in this country: his whole life has been a life guided by conviction, the conviction of the Holy Fathers, the conviction of the Apostles.

We in America have been so carefully conditioned to tolerate one another, to respect one another's opinions, views, ideas, for we surmise, in this lies our own freedom of self-determination. We are so careful not to offend, to tolerate, to make room for anything. But a Bishop cannot follow the path of convert America. He must follow the path he vowed to follow in his episcopal oath, where he promised before God and all the faithful to uphold the canons and dogmas of the Orthodox Faith.

What does this mean? It means that any who oppose the teachings of the Church oppose the Bishop, who stands as the guardian and transmitter to the next generation of the Apostolic Tradition.

The ROAC's mission in the world is not to suggest which other jurisdictions on the planet souls searching for the truth should go: our mission is to bring as many souls as we can into the Ark herself. So when Bishop Gregory says that in his mind the only option is ROAC, he is not saying that our Church is the last Orthodox Church on the planet, what he is saying is, "We, the Synod of ROAC, love you, and will do everything we can to help you, no matter where you are, or what your race is, or what your experience." If you want to remain in the Russian tradition, there is no other option for those who are seeking true Orthodoxy.

Did not Saint Philaret the Confessor quote and agree with Bishop Nektary of Seattle’s statement, when he said, There are no other jurisdictions, there is just the Russian Church Abroad? Its acceptable for them to say it, but when Bishop Gregory says it, the converts slanderer him and say this is an HTM monastery. Well, Bishop Gregory came to Boston before HTM did. This is a Metropolitan Philaret/Bishop Gregory policy: its called Orthodoxy at its best.

There are some who believe that taking a stand for what is right is actually wrong. As I wrote in earlier posts, if someone is tired of being lied to, tired of being kicked against the rocks, tired of diving into the pool and hitting the hidden stones below, then ROAC is something you should look into.

"Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth?" "Come and see."

Ten years have passed since the ROCA denied the Orthodox Faith. Ten long years have seen betrayal after betrayal, one ecumenical overture after another. Our Metropolitan Valentine's analysis of the spiritual condition of the ROCA clergyman after the Synod meeting of 2000 is quite accurate: the conscience of the ROCA has perished.

This is why time and time again, in the face of the hand of God upon them, they have not returned from the precipice Cyprianism hurled them over. And now they are about to find the very depths of their path: first submission, and then annihilation within the Moscow Patriarchate.

In Christ,

Fr. George