The Saint Euphrosynos Cafe

GOCPriestMark wrote:

Lydia wrote:

Unfortunately, divorce is quite common in the Orthodox Church. A divorce is granted if the couple's spiritual father deems it is for the spiritual well-being of the individuals.

Can this be substantiated somehow? I have never heard of a divorce in the Orthodox Church. (Please tell me you were not including new-calendarists.)

No, I have only belonged to parishes that follow the Old Calendar, and as I wrote, there were divorces. Do you want me to give the names of the people involved?
You are a priest of GOC Kyrikos in Vancouver, aren't you Father Mark? I attended the same parish as some of your members. You could ask them for verification, if you like.(Maria, for one)

Lydia wrote:

GOCPriestMark wrote:

Lydia wrote:

Unfortunately, divorce is quite common in the Orthodox Church. A divorce is granted if the couple's spiritual father deems it is for the spiritual well-being of the individuals.

Can this be substantiated somehow? I have never heard of a divorce in the Orthodox Church. (Please tell me you were not including new-calendarists.)

No, I have only belonged to parishes that follow the Old Calendar, and as I wrote, there were divorces. Do you want me to give the names of the people involved?
You are a priest of GOC Kyrikos in Vancouver, aren't you Father Mark? I attended the same parish as some of your members. You could ask them for verification, if you like.(Maria, for one)

In the parishes associated with HOCNA which I have attended in the past, about 10 percent of those married were divorced. And that is a number that is below the average, as the national divorce rate is about 50 percent. However, in both HOCNA and in Greek Orthodox (GOARCH) parishes, people who are divorcing or who have divorced are penanced by their priests. In the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese, my former pastor told me that divorced parishioners cannot receive the Holy Mysteries until an ecclesiastical court is convened and this court determines that they are repentant, so the priest alone cannot admit them to confession without the blessing of the bishop. Although divorced parishioners may not seek reconciliation for many years, a divorced parishioner is usually penanced up to five years. However, divorce is a terrible stigma. Often a new priest who has heard nothing of a previous divorce will meet people who have not been to communion for 20 years.

Maria,

Now, I am bit mystified, to say the least. You wrote:

“… divorced parishioner is usually penanced up to five years”, but for what?

Some divorced people are often not the “guilt party” because they have been given no other option but to sign the legal papers [otherwise … this or that …], even though, they were against divorce from their spouse.

Take a living example. My sister has been married to her husband for about forty years. Four years ago, my brother-in-law, after being separated from sister for some years - while living with another woman - forced her to sign the divorce papers. So who is the guilty party here, my sister or my ex brother-in-law? Why, in such a case, should a priest [the church] require long years of penance from a parishioner, when there is no culpability on her [or his] part in the first place?

NadirGP wrote:

Maria,

Now, I am bit mystified, to say the least. You wrote:

“… divorced parishioner is usually penanced up to five years”, but for what?

Some divorced people are often not the “guilt party” because they have been given no other option but to sign the legal papers [otherwise … this or that …], even though, they were against divorce from their spouse.

Take a living example. My sister has been married to her husband for about forty years. Four years ago, my brother-in-law, after being separated from sister for some years - while living with another woman - forced her to sign the divorce papers. So who is the guilty party here, my sister or my ex brother-in-law? Why, in such a case, should a priest [the church] require long years of penance from a parishioner, when there is no culpability on her [or his] part in the first place?

If a party is innocent, then the Orthodox Priest can approach the Bishop and economia will be granted. Usually both parties share the blame as no one is perfect. There was the case of an attempted murder in Texas. A medical doctor obtained an expensive insurance policy around the time of his marriage, but intended to kill his bride shortly after their wedding. When the authorities suspected foul play and his murderous intentions were revealed, then her husband was found guilty and sentenced to prison. She was granted a blessing to marry another man and was not penanced as this previous marriage was deemed to be fraudulent. I think there was a movie made about this true story.

Maria wrote:

NadirGP wrote:

Maria,

Now, I am bit mystified, to say the least. You wrote:

“… divorced parishioner is usually penanced up to five years”, but for what?

Some divorced people are often not the “guilt party” because they have been given no other option but to sign the legal papers [otherwise … this or that …], even though, they were against divorce from their spouse.

Take a living example. My sister has been married to her husband for about forty years. Four years ago, my brother-in-law, after being separated from sister for some years - while living with another woman - forced her to sign the divorce papers. So who is the guilty party here, my sister or my ex brother-in-law? Why, in such a case, should a priest [the church] require long years of penance from a parishioner, when there is no culpability on her [or his] part in the first place?

If a party is innocent, then the Orthodox Priest can approach the Bishop and economia will be granted. Usually both parties share the blame as no one is perfect. There was the case of an attempted murder in Texas. A medical doctor obtained an expensive insurance policy around the time of his marriage, but intended to kill his bride shortly after their wedding. When the authorities suspected foul play and his murderous intentions were revealed, then her husband was found guilty and sentenced to prison. She was granted a blessing to marry another man and was not penanced as this previous marriage was deemed to be fraudulent. I think there was a movie made about this true story.

The parties involved were Orthodox Christians?

Lydia wrote:

Maria wrote:

NadirGP wrote:

Maria,

Now, I am bit mystified, to say the least. You wrote:

“… divorced parishioner is usually penanced up to five years”, but for what?

Some divorced people are often not the “guilt party” because they have been given no other option but to sign the legal papers [otherwise … this or that …], even though, they were against divorce from their spouse.

Take a living example. My sister has been married to her husband for about forty years. Four years ago, my brother-in-law, after being separated from sister for some years - while living with another woman - forced her to sign the divorce papers. So who is the guilty party here, my sister or my ex brother-in-law? Why, in such a case, should a priest [the church] require long years of penance from a parishioner, when there is no culpability on her [or his] part in the first place?

If a party is innocent, then the Orthodox Priest can approach the Bishop and economia will be granted. Usually both parties share the blame as no one is perfect. There was the case of an attempted murder in Texas. A medical doctor obtained an expensive insurance policy around the time of his marriage, but intended to kill his bride shortly after their wedding. When the authorities suspected foul play and his murderous intentions were revealed, then her husband was found guilty and sentenced to prison. She was granted a blessing to marry another man and was not penanced as this previous marriage was deemed to be fraudulent. I think there was a movie made about this true story.

The parties involved were Orthodox Christians?

I do not know. However, the bride was an Orthodox Christian.

In HOCNA and in HOTCA, from what I was taught, if a priest divorces, then he is defrocked. Yet, in other jurisdictions, if a priest is divorced by his wife who has left him for another man, then he will be granted economia and will be allowed to remain in the Holy Priesthood as long as he does not remarry.

In the Greek Orthodox Church (world orthodoxy), several priests have abruptly left their wives for another. In all those cases, they were defrocked.

We are to pray for our priests who are often sorely tempted. If they can fall for diabolical temptations, the church is harmed.