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If you were participating in the formation of an Orthodox community, what type of community would it be?

1) Reclusive, Amish-like, no modern conveniences, self-sufficient, agriculturally based, etc.

3
7%

2) Semi-reclusive, both farming & business, some modern conveniences, etc.

13
28%

3) Quiet (but not reclusive), normal modern conveniences, normal secular jobs permitted, etc.

15
33%

4) Missionary, all the normal modern conveniences, secular jobs permitted, etc.

9
20%

5) You are all crazy, this idea is a bad one.

2
4%

6) While the idea is workable, I couldn't possibly be involved.

4
9%
 
Total votes: 46

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尼古拉前执事
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a theory

Post by 尼古拉前执事 »

Liudmilla again comes in with the important stuff :D

I think the steps in such a process initially would be this... (but I could be wrong)

  1. Acquiring willing parties. Enough to get a priest to go along with such a thing.

  2. Acquiring jobs for all parties in general area.

  3. Building church and houses.

Then once you had an initial community it could expand after there being a base. The base would be the hardest. It requires capital and the most risk.

Logos
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Post by Logos »

With building houses and churches, the members of the community themselves could do it if they wanted to. I know of people who have built their houses all by themselves.

Justin Kissel

Post by Justin Kissel »

Nicholas


1. Acquiring willing parties. Enough to get a priest to go along with such a thing.

Is this something you see as a necessity? What if we have 12-15 people, and no priest would be able to come (after all, it's sort of up to the bishop where the priest goes, isn't it?) I mean, I think it'd be great to start with a priest, but is it a necessity?

2. Acquiring jobs for all parties in general area.

This might be the hardest... and perhaps geography will have an effect on this. If we're talking about relocating somewhere within 8 or less hours of where we live, then that would be easier than if we're moving half way across the country. I think the first thing on the list to be discussed (as we progress) should be the general geographic area that we're going to be moving to. We don't have to decide any time in the next few months, but obviously this decision has to be made before we start thinking about relocating and finding jobs.

3. Building church and houses.

Ok, what do you see for this? Do you see a Church right away? What type of dwellings do you see? Let me be blunt, my wife and I cannot afford nor would we want a full-sized home. Also, who are going to be building these things? I have very little construction experience, and I doubt my childhood treehouses are up to the same standards that we'd want for a church or home ;)

Justin

Justin Kissel

Post by Justin Kissel »

All,

Let me speak candidly. For me, there wouldn't be a great risk if we were doing the option being mentioned lately (which people seem to gravitate towards). I was going to buy land and put something small on it anyway. Though this was suppose to be a short term thing, I have no problem making it a long term thing. For me, then, this is something I'd been thinking about for quite a while. As I was reading Fr. Seraphim's biography the idea of a mission, and also of an Orthodox community, struck me. So when this thread was started, it wasn't like I approached it having suddenly found myself agreeing with an idea I hadn't considered before (as I said, my wife and I were going to do that anyway, it just seemed to make more sense to save up and get a place owned by us than to be paying rent for the next however many decades). In that way, if we don't do the first thing mentioned, I'll probably be doing something like the latest option anyway, whether anyone joins or not (though of course if no one else is there it wouldn't be a mission and I'd have to go elsewhere to Church).

Thinking out loud. Sorry.

Justin

This will be the last time I'll be posting on this thread for quite some time (I won't be posting anywhere, it's not just this thread in particular). However, I still look forward to reading all of your posts.

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Seraphim Reeves
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Sense of community

Post by Seraphim Reeves »

I think the most workable model would be a tight knit Orthodox community - say, a neighbourhood in a city, where there is a large concentration of Orthodox Christians, whose community life revolves around a parish Church.

One big obstical to this, is that in general, the whole notion of "community" is lost on us. With the expansion of communication technologies and transit, people are feeling (upfront at least) less of the pinch that once was associated with isolation.

However, the type of community that this technology provides is insufficient; it is only pseudo, and incomplete. It certainly does not allow for a real ecclessiastical community.

There is one example in my own experience of Christians gathering together for religious/community reasons. It's amongst the traditionalist Roman Catholics, who for some time have been slowly moving into a small KS town called St.Mary's. They have an academy and small college there, and a lot of the life of the people in the town revolves around the church there (run by the "notorious" Society of St.Pius X). I spent some time down there back in my RC days, and though it certainly was not without problems, you really got a sense that this was a good place for children to be raised (since the social climate was not only not hostile to their religion, but very encouraging of it...if anything, it was sin that was sneered at and viewed poorly by the people there.)

I do not see why it would be impossible for Orthodox Christians to have a similar situation. I know the people in St.Mary's sacrificed quite a bit to move down there (often giving up their current employment, and "gambling" to find new employment in the St.Mary's area), since a good number of them are from all sorts of different parts of the United States.

I know I for one, would even consider leaving the country (my wife btw. is an American citizen) if I knew there was a growing Orthodox community in the United States.

Some have accused this practice of being "isolationist." There is some truth to this; however the Church has always been in one part, quite public, yet in other ways, quite insular (to the point that even catechumen were not allowed to attend the whole of the Divine Liturgy). There is nothing wrong with wanting to associate with people who have a similar outlook, and are not going to ruin your children - a situation that is particularly bad now, as secular/mainstream society is turning increasingly pagan (indeed, even pagan is not an adequate enough expression, since there was at least some moral content to a great part of the old pagan religions.)

Seraphim

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Post by David1 »

If you don't mind, I have spent a long while considering this and have a few thoughts. At one point I was planning on moving to Texas and helping out Basil and Xenia before their split, and have spent a short time living on secular communes before becoming Orthodox.

There are many possible plans on how to make such a community work. Unfortunately, unless a member or benefactor is very affluent, there will have to be a way to create financial income, at least in the beginning. Agriculture and secondary agricultural industries(sawmill, making tofu from soybeans, etc) are the traditional form of income for both Amish communities and for secular communes. I'm not as well read on kibbutzes but I gather that their income is diversified from the talents and work of all the individual members. There are other approaches as well. A few local Orthodox families who are considering creating a community have also suggested taking care of elderly Orthodox men and women - they would not simply be a burden that is taken care of for money like in secular nursing homes, but a community as bound in tradition as Orthodoxy would treasure our elders and help them make the best preparation possible for their repose.

Another idea that I had, though it would require a lot of startup capital, would be to have a small Orthodox junior college in the community. There are so many bad influences on youth these days I think it would be great for those who aren't on a fast track education or haven't eeven figured out if they want to finish college have a small school to go to where they can take part daily in their faith while learning community values and either an associate in arts or science. This sounds like it would need a huge amount of money, but you would really need only a handful of teachers...english, mathmatics, science, humanities(history, philosophy, etc), and the priest could teach religion. Language teachers among Orthodox should not be difficult to find. This of course would not be possible while a community is began, but five or ten years down the road I don't think the idea is completely impossible.

To start, I would say you would need at least five families. After the land is purchased, the first building up would probably be a commonhouse. This is a multipurpose building that secular communities use, and it is a great help in building a full community. A Commonhouse routinely has a large cafeteria-style kitchen and dining rooms, two dormatory sized bathrooms, and several smaller rooms that can be used in the beginning as bedrooms while everyone is building their own dwellings. After homes are built, these rooms can be used for classrooms, libraries, offices, or guest rooms. One modification I would make for Orthodox use would be to add a room large enough to act as the chapel until the group is ready to construct the temple. Depending on the size and the materials used, this does not have to be terribly expensive to build if you use alternative building materials such as cob, cordwood, ferrocement, etc.

Since this is a rather large first post, I will end now, but will post several links that may be of help.

Here are two secular Intentional Communities(ICs, the new name for communes) that have a lot of good ideas. Everyone who is interested in forming a community would do well to read these sites.

Twin Oaks is one of the oldest functioning communes. It was began in 1967 as an attempt to put the ideas in Walden Two by B.F. Skinner into practice. Currently there around one hundred people living there and they have a lot of income methods and facilities.

Dancing Rabbit Ecovillage has a strange name, but they have a lot of good ideas. Again, this and the above site do not express christian morality, but there are many good organizational ideas from these sites.

The best site for ICs in general is The Intentional Communities Homepage. Another good site.

Homestead.org is a good site by a ROCOR couple I corresponded with a few years ago. Lots of good practical info about life on a farm here.

Pacific Yurts Yurts are a very interesting low income housing option that can be set up anywhere, is portable, and can let you live as primitive or as modern as you would like. This is one of the more expensive companies that produces commercial yurts, but their site has some of the best info. If interested I will post more yurt links.

Another type of religious community than the Amish or in Jewish kibbutzi is the group of Bruderhof Communities. The Bruderhof is a group of german anabaptists who moved to NY and PA a hundred years ago and have many of the Amish good points without some of the detractions. This community supports itself by it's publishing house and by making children's playground equipment.

Speaking of the Amish, check out Lehman's an online store that sells many items needed in rural or nonelectric living.

I look forward to discussing this with all of you. Through the prayers of the Theotokos Lord Jesus Christ Son of God have mercy upon us!

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Methodius
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/\

Post by Methodius »

David thanks for the links and information!

As for me, Id want this community to be in the middle of nowhere. While the cold turkey of no electricity and stuff could be something neat to try. Some of the replies hit me back into reality. No toiletpaper? No escape from heat? Oy!

I would like to have it be a small community, if people wanted to farm they could, or if one likes they could seek outside employment too. I like the above idea of starting with a community house and going from there. If one worked for a construction company one would learn how to build a house quite easily.

I want to be away from society, and especially away from major cities. Why? Thoes girls wearing hardly anything and it looks like their clothes are painted on leave images in my mind for a long time and can cause one to sin. Its easier not to have this problem when you are away from such things. Reminding yourself of the importance of modesty and traditional dress.

I disagree with some in saying having a priest isnt important. In fact I think making this drastic of a change it is of utmost importance to have a priest there involved guiding one. I am sure that if we found a dozen families to go for this, God would provide a priest to lead the community.

I look forward to your return Paradosis and await your thoughts since you seem to be the one most seriously thinking of doing it now. I cant at this time, but in the future would like to help build such a community.

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