Coptic Orthodox

[Jakub]

I have found Liudmilla to be the most level headed person on this forum, comments become personal when names are attached. Did the Lord treat the Samaritan woman at the well like some of you treated Mor and Anastasios ? And who are we to question the work at the Seminary?

I am a outsider who was invited here by Nicholas, but if Orthodoxy is about what is occuring here I want no part of it. Some of you want to brow beat people to your point of view, did the Lord use these tactics on His disciples ?

The forum is for discussion and exchanging views & ideas, and not for discipling and judging brethern. I see many harden hearts and minds here and I will pray for you.

James

[Justin Kissel]

Oddly enough, in the past this forum has been (rightly, IMO) described as one of the most civil Orthodox forums online. Almost certainly the most civil traditionalist forum for exchanging ideas, considering the wide range of the views of the posters (Antiochians, OCA, etc; ROCOR, JP, Serbia, etc.; ROAC, TOC, etc.) I too would prefer for names of other posters to not be the center of the discussion, but there's nothing wrong with discussion getting a bit heated from time to time. If I may be so bold, Jakub, is it possible that the problem is not everyone (or nearly everyone) else's style or form of communicating, but your not being use to the style of communication? When someone first reads Saint John Chrysostom's Homilies Against the Jews (or Judaizers) delivered in Antioch, for instance, they can seem extremely harsh--he seems to literally hate the jews and be "anti-semitic". But if we come to these conclusions it most likely only demonstrates that we are ignorant of the rhetorical methods and styles of St. John's time, and the context in which he was writing. May I humbly ask, Jakub, if in the case of our forum the same thing might be happening?

[Natasha]

I must agree with Paradosis again (are you shocked? )
jakub wrote: "but if Orthodoxy is about what is occuring here I want no part of it."

Now it seems as if you are being the one too quick to judge. I don't think that anyone was really out of line here. If you think this language is harsh you certainly have not spent a lot of time around some Russians.

[Jakub]

Paradosis,

Discussions getting a little heated is one thing, but when you make a detrimental comment and single out ones Eucharist celebration is another.

Let me clarify my statement about Orthodoxy, it is regarding the way you project it. I see the Church as one, however there is alot of ethnic variables, and it appears the majority here say theirs is the best or the true one. I respect my bretherns ethnic practices.

You can tell the true one by the fruit it bears.

I don't need to be Orthodox to see good and evil, wrong or right.

Some are overly zealous and aggressive professing their faith and beliefs.

james

[Liudmilla]

I really need to work on getting my point across more clearly....

I am not saying that there cannot be debate, but your debates need to be tempered a bit. If your aim is to convince someone of your position, then I hardly think calling him names (i.e. heretic) will accomplish your goal. All it means is that you have not accomplished your objective.

Instead of driving that person away, perhaps the thing to do would have been to step away and argue another day in another way. Anastasios may in deed have at times been provocative, but it certainly made you guys search for answers to respond to him, but this last round was a bit too cruel.

Love for your fellow brother, temperence and patience would have served to convince him of the true path to travel. Consider if someone treated you in this manner.... would any of you ended up where you are today? None of you walk in his shoes and so you do not really know the state of his heart or for that matter his anguish.

Consider this-- in driving Anastasios away (and for that matter others who have left for simular reasons)--- did you serve God's purpose, did you persuade them of the truth or did you serve the evil one?

[Justin Kissel]

Jakub,

I guess I just don't get it, I've not seen anyone here say something that makes their ethnicity above that of others. I've seen quite the opposite, in fact. What have we seen over the past few days, for instance? Someone making a joke about their Greek family, and someone saying that even though they attend a Russian Church, they consider themselves American and actually prefer other types of music such as Antiochian and Carpatho-Russian. On another forum you participate at I complimented a newly built Church because I thought it was quite beautiful (it reminded me of the ancient Georgian Orthodox Churches I've seen in pictures). I guess I'm just not sure where you see the ethnicity thing? I'm seriously asking here.

The word "Russian" gets thrown around a lot on this forum, but it's not because we are focusing on ethnicity, it's because the Churches we are talking about have "Russian" in their name. If you'd like to open a thread on Carpatho-Russian plain chant, Georgian architecture, Serbian monasticism, or relations between North Africa and Rome during the 3rd century, then please, be my guest! I myself am trying to go in other directions and away from the ecclesiological stuff for a while. But please don't think that because we talk about the Russian Church Abroad or the Moscow Patriarchate a lot that we are hung up on everything Russian and think being Russian makes us better than others.

[Jakub]

Liudmilla,

I would gladly discuss Orthodoxy with you, there is a sense of trust and respect with you.

Paradosis,

Like I said, I am not one for ethnic titles or labels. I am searching Orthodoxy to see where and if I fit in. I do not care to be recruited by one group, although I have been approached here. You still have not replied to the question of detrimental comments regarding ones communional ways or zealous attack of ones practice of Orthodoxy.

I think you would want a forum where people would return to discuss issues within Orthodoxy intelligently and with respect for ones current chosen practice.

Mor Ephrem and Anastasios are quite capable of standing up for their beliefs & practices, I just voiced my opinion, though I am currently outside Orthodoxy.

james