The Saint Euphrosynos Cafe

Here is another article on morality that might interest you as it "proves" that our first instinct is selfless and good.

It debunks Augustinism.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... S_20121124

Thanks for the link. I took a look at the article, but I just feel that such in depth probing and analysis are beyond my experience and ability. I need to approach the faith more simply that scientific studies and philosophers like Rousseau. I apologise for being contrarian earlier. I should know better than to give my own opinions so much weight. I am more likely to be wrong than right.

I'm pretty sure that it's no more true to say that people are born good and are led to evil by their environment, as modern romantics and revolutionaries believe, than it is to say that they are incorrigibly evil, as the Calvinists believe. The Theotokos never committed sin, not because she had no innate tendency towards sin, but because she always struggled against sin and chose good. Of course, her upbringing helped, being raised in a pious family and then raised in the Temple, where she was guarded from all sinful influences.

Young children are morally innocent because their knowledge of right and wrong is not yet perfectly developed, so they can't be held accountable for the wrong they commit. With proper upbringing, but also through their personal efforts, they can learn to avoid sin. But it's not true that the young are somehow completely preserved from sin.

That makes sense to me and ties together the points everyone was bringing up in a balanced way, I think. Thanks , Jonathan

1) Infants inherit original sin and are baptized for the remission of sins, just as with adults.
2) Maria, please describe specifically what you mean by "Augustinism" being "debunked". Define it for us as it relates to this topic.
3) The holy fathers have spoken of infants who suffered from demonic possession.

Isn't Saint Augustine a SAINT? I thought that he was called at least, "Blessed," so, he can't be all that bad, can he? Apart from limbo and a unique idea of predestination, I can't recall anything about infants being a bit off.

Cyprian wrote:

1) Infants inherit original sin and are baptized for the remission of sins, just as with adults.
2) Maria, please describe specifically what you mean by "Augustinism" being "debunked". Define it for us as it relates to this topic.
3) The holy fathers have spoken of infants who suffered from demonic possession.

Personally, I believe that St. Augustine is a saint although some of his early writings are questionable.
I remember reading one of his books where he stated, "Our hearts are restless until they rest in Thee."
And that statement resonated with me.

However, there are some "True Orthodox" and members of World Orthodoxy who have a different opinion of Augustine, and who do not honor him as a saint. For some reason, they would rather call him "Blessed" Augustine rather than "Saint" Augustine. That distinction has always puzzled me.

In the context of this thread, St. Augustine taught that all infants inherit or are conceived with the "stain" of Adam's Original Sin on their souls (a Catholic teaching). Thus, all infants are prone to evil*. Because of this predisposition to evil, Augustine was encouraged to wait until adulthood to receive Holy Baptism. At that time, parents did not want to baptize their children too early so that they would not sin and stain their baptismal garments. However, being raised without receiving Christ our God in Holy Communion is not good for the child, who may reject the True Faith, as did Augustine. Only later in his adulthood, through the prayers of his mother, St. Monica, did St. Augustine finally accept the Truth and repent with tears.

*Calvinists carry this teaching further and say that we are born in a depraved condition.