Flower girls during Holy Saturday Matins

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Jean-Serge
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Re: Girl candle bearers during Holy Saturday matins

Post by Jean-Serge »

I still have no inputs about the origin of this practice. I still don't have no answer. Regarding ladies chanting and reading a part set for the reader, well initially when ladies began singing Fathers objected saying it was too sensual and that they sang in a too emotive way (and at this time Russian polyphonic music , that I dislike by the way, did not exist!). I think that they sing and read because there is a lack of men doing it.

It seems to me that globally at church, the man comes first and then the ladies maybe because of the role of Eve. If you go to Georgia for instance, which is, according to me one of the last traditional orthodox places in the world (whether true orthodox or not), you'll see that after children have communed, men will go and later ladies. It will be the same when times comes to venerate things during a service, to kiss the Cross, take antidoron etc. To be honest, I've seen reports about this in Romania too... An advantage of this, is the absence of traffic jam at church with everybody rushing to the same place at the same time. The fact of having girls throwing petals would be a sort of inversion of the classic order of man first, ladies after, and giving a sort of privilege to ladies.

But I agree globally with you: it is not a casus belli

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Re: Girl candle bearers during Holy Saturday matins

Post by jgress »

Jean-Serge wrote:

I still have no inputs about the origin of this practice. I still don't have no answer. Regarding ladies chanting and reading a part set for the reader, well initially when ladies began singing Fathers objected saying it was too sensual and that they sang in a too emotive way (and at this time Russian polyphonic music , that I dislike by the way, did not exist!). I think that they sing and read because there is a lack of men doing it.

It seems to me that globally at church, the man comes first and then the ladies maybe because of the role of Eve. If you go to Georgia for instance, which is, according to me one of the last traditional orthodox places in the world (whether true orthodox or not), you'll see that after children have communed, men will go and later ladies. It will be the same when times comes to venerate things during a service, to kiss the Cross, take antidoron etc. To be honest, I've seen reports about this in Romania too... An advantage of this, is the absence of traffic jam at church with everybody rushing to the same place at the same time. The fact of having girls throwing petals would be a sort of inversion of the classic order of man first, ladies after, and giving a sort of privilege to ladies.

But I agree globally with you: it is not a casus belli

That makes sense.

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Re: Girl candle bearers during Holy Saturday matins

Post by jgress »

A friend of mine has a grandmother who recalls throwing flower petals on the Epitaphios back in the 1920s. For context, in her village women weren't even allowed to go shopping on their own. So the theory that this custom is due to feminism is wrong.

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Jean-Serge
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Re: Girl candle bearers during Holy Saturday matins

Post by Jean-Serge »

jgress wrote:

A friend of mine has a grandmother who recalls throwing flower petals on the Epitaphios back in the 1920s. For context, in her village women weren't even allowed to go shopping on their own. So the theory that this custom is due to feminism is wrong.

Very interesting input.. Not allowing ladies to go shopping alone is a wise custom, particularly during sales. :lol:

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Re: Girl candle bearers during Holy Saturday matins

Post by jgress »

Jean-Serge wrote:
jgress wrote:

A friend of mine has a grandmother who recalls throwing flower petals on the Epitaphios back in the 1920s. For context, in her village women weren't even allowed to go shopping on their own. So the theory that this custom is due to feminism is wrong.

Very interesting input.. Not allowing ladies to go shopping alone is a wise custom, particularly during sales. :lol:

:lol:

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Maria
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Re: Girl candle bearers during Holy Saturday matins

Post by Maria »

jgress wrote:

A friend of mine has a grandmother who recalls throwing flower petals on the Epitaphios back in the 1920s. For context, in her village women weren't even allowed to go shopping on their own. So the theory that this custom is due to feminism is wrong.

When I was a child, I remember that my mom would never go shopping alone. She would either go with a good friend, or she would take her brood of children. Of course those where the days when women and girls wore hats and gloves outside or to church. We would never go shopping in slacks as that was not appropriate for young ladies and women.

Again, I see really nothing wrong with the little flower girls as they also scatter flower pedals on Palm Sunday. What concerns me is the wearing of tight denim above-the-knee skirts by one of their chaperones. When I first entered an Orthodox Church, I was told that women should not wear blue or black denim skirts or dresses to church, even if they were long skirts, as it was considered too casual. The strangest thing was that the very women who told us ladies not to wear denim said that it was perfectly allowable for men to wear denim jeans to church even on Sunday, and they did not say a word if a young girl or a teenage girl wore a tight mini skirt made of denim. Strange. Weird. Dare I say hypocritical?

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Maria
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Re: Flower girls during Holy Saturday Matins

Post by Maria »

Mod Note: A new thread on Immodest Clothing has been split from this thread.
http://www.euphrosynoscafe.com/forum/vi ... =4&t=10163

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