The Saint Euphrosynos Cafe

Pravoslavnik wrote:

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    Consider the Orthodox saints of North America-- Saints Herman, Innocent, Juvenaly, Peter the Aleut, Tihkon, John of San Francisco. [/quote]

Yes, but they were Russians, that is why the Russians love them.

Pravoslavnik wrote:

They were all poorer than proverbial church mice, although St. Innocent was able to build rather remarkable buildings, furniture, clocks, etc. with his own hands, something he learned while growing up in extreme poverty in Siberia as a youth.

They were Russians and actually true saints however.

Pravoslavnik wrote:

St. John of Kronstadt was so poor that he walked barefoot to school in Archangelsk so that he would not ruin his only pair of shoes.

Again, he was Russian and actually a true saint.

Pravoslavnik wrote:

Father Seraphim Rose, I am told, lived in fairly extreme poverty at Platina, after growing up in a non-descript, middle class home in southern California.

So what? All monks live in extreme poverty. I don't see why Father Seraphim is singled out. I come from a middle class home also. Does this make me a saint?

Pravoslavnik wrote:

(I think his father owned a gas station.) One would hardly consider such men to be wealthy or elitist, except of course in matters of the spirit and intellect.

The reason Russian love him is because he is a good example of the Russianization of America. Father Seraphim learned the language and the culture. Also, he had two degrees. Russians and Greeks love the wealthy or educated of the world.

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 [quote="Pravoslavnik"]    As for the Royal Martyrs, they are among the best known among many thousands in the ranks of those martyred by the Bolsheviks in Russia. [/quote]

Again, they are not martyrs. They did not die for Orthodoxy. They died for the empire.

Pravoslavnik wrote:

Tsar Nicholas II, for example, was a very generous patron and protector of the Orthodox Church, and would personally greet and embrace every Orthodox priest in any community that he ever visited on affairs of state.

That's not a criteria for sainthood. I also employ those things and know people who do. Why are we not saints? Again, Orthodox have high esteem for the powerful of the world, the rich and formerly educated.

Constantine, Archbishop Gregory's website has done a very successful job at refuting and debunking Matthewite claims and pretentions. Have you even read those articles?

As long as there are people like you who persist in schism and disobedience to the Church, we will never see unity.

Incognito1583 wrote:

Constantine, Archbishop Gregory's website has done a very successful job at refuting and debunking Matthewite claims and pretentions. Have you even read those articles?

It could only do a good job if what was written there was true.

As long as there are people like you who persist in schism and disobedience to the Church, we will never see unity.

Why do you choose to insult me? Have I ever done anything but stick up for you? If insulting me makes you feel Orthodox and benefits you spiritually, then please insult me.

I just have one question for you, are you a member of any synod or under the omophorion of any Bishop? Because if you are not....

people like you who persist in schism and disobedience to the Church

Also can you please answer my question...you seem to believe that all the bishops in 1935 were schismatic, is that correct?

Constantine

No, I don't believe all the bishops in 1935 were schismatic.

And PriestMark, can you please show what he says on his site that is not true?

I am tired of all these contradictory opinions where no body seems to know where grace is or anything with certainty in Orthodoxy. Who or what speaks for Orthodoxy? Christ did NOT leave us with such an absurd and ambiguous religion. People DO NOT decide these issues. Christ left us with His Church. WHERE IS IT?

I just talked to a priest via email who told me he "believed" ROCA did not lose grace when they were with Cyprian.

WHO CARES WHAT HE THINKS?

He is not the God-ordained authority established by Christ to decide these issues!

Orthodoxy is rapidly headed for fundamentalism.

The bishops destroyed the Orthodox Church.

Here we are all claiming to be Orthodox, and no body is in communion with each other.

When I came to Orthodoxy many years ago, I thought we were one true Church. This proved to be totally false.

Why don't we have FACTS? Why can't we know with CERTAINTY where the Church is and where grace is?

I'm tired of listening to schismatics. They are VERY un-healthy for the Church (wherever it is).

They can destroy faith in this religion alltogether.

WHERE IS THE ORTHODOX CHURCH? WHY DOESN'T ANYONE KNOW WITH CERTAINTY WHERE GRACE IS? THESE ARE FUNDAMENTALIST HUMAN OPINIONS WHICH CARRY NO AUTHORITY WHATSOEVER.

WHERE IS THE ORTHODOX CHURCH? I WILL GET AS MANY OPINIONS AS THERE ARE PEOPLE. THIS IS JUST LIKE FUNDAMENTALIST PROTESTANTISM.

I THINK GOD GAVE US THE POPES TO BIND AND GLUE THESE SCHISMATICS TOGETHER.

HISTORY HAS PROVEN THAT WITHOUT A HEAD OF THE CHURCH, RELIGION LEADS TO AN INEVITABLE FUNDAMENTALISM.

THESE GROUPS HAVE PROVEN IT.

YOU CAN'T EVEN TELL ME WHERE GRACE IS.

WHAT A RIDICULOUS RELIGION.

How can a person know where to go to get saved? There is no authoritative mouth in Orthodoxy. People just give their opinions, and I'm tired of it.

Look at what happened with Protestantism after they left Rome. They have fallen into division after division BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO HEAD.

Orthodoxy is the exact same thing.

In Church history, ROME, not insignificat individuals, decided these issues. The keys of authority always resided in Rome. But Orthodoxy is becoming crypto-papist in that they act like miniature popes like protestants. And they can't agree on very important issues. The subject of grace, is VERY important. But they can't even figure out the most important of all issues --WHERE GRACE AND THE CHURCH IS.

They follow guru elders and signs from heaven to show them where the truth is, but they still don't have any clue where the truth (and grace) is. This is ridiculous.

They think because someone is incorrupt this means his jurisdiction has grace.

This kind of reasoning is not what the Church is built on.

This is excessive supersition and of cultic reasoning.

I was once so strong in my belief of Orthodoxy, but the years have caused me to doubt it because there is no unity. Christ left us with ONE Church. Where is it? Why can't anyone point me to it with certainty? They all point to their schisms and none of them agree.

MEN AND BISHOPS HAVE DESTROYED ORTHODOXY.

This is why Christ left the keys to ONE man and his successors to keep the Church united and ONE.

The schismatics have NO authority.

You people tell me to be Orthodox, but you can't even tell me where the Orthodox Church is. There is NO Orthodox Church. There are multiple conflicting jurisdictions.

This is NOT the Church or the legacy Christ left the world.

You have not shown me any reason why I should take you seriously.