Which is Truly Orthodox: NFP or Contraceptives?

[Matthew]

I think the concept of "family planning" sounds awful. It shows lack of faith in God and
wanting complete CONTROL by humans. That is the usual problem which leads to serious trouble
Same argument is used by those who have abortions.
They toss off arguments like "Oh it was not convenient, I had to finish up my year at school first
before I could consider a child."

Only human considerations prevail in most Western-educated-populations.

Hence I think we have to be shrewder and ask what is the will of God in each and every individual situation.
I see it as between the husband and the wife, because the priest may not know them well and give the wrong advice.
That's my opinion, don't persecute me.

Is that Fr Ambrose [Mooney] from New Zealand who wrote that ?

I surely agree about the usury - whatever happened to THAT precept ? Seems to have fallen by the wayside. I hate the idea of
loans, mortgages, etc. The whole exonomy is based on this greed.

You might be right Barbara. It seemed to me that NFP was not "not trusting God" but simply men and women exercising both responsibility and also acting as co-creators or working synergistically with God; principles that seemed to me to be in keeping with Orthodox ideas.

As for Usury, I am in complete agreement. It is interesting that, from what I hear, islamic countries have banks that are forbidden to loan on interest. Usury I have heard is not allowed in islamic countries, not even the national banks do this. So, obviously Banks can survive and the economy function well without the evil of usury.

[Jean-Serge]

Regarding natural family planning, first, it does not work so well, and secondly, taking one's temperature daily without being sick is not so natural for me. There is homily of Saint John Chrysostom I don't remember when he condemns people using contraception with their mistresses.

[Matthew]

Regarding natural family planning, first, it does not work so well, and secondly, taking one's temperature daily without being sick is not so natural for me. There is homily of Saint John Chrysostom I don't remember when he condemns people using contraception with their mistresses.

I think that the phrase, "It does not work so well," is not a minus point. The whole reason why NFP is considered NOT contraception is because it is by nature still open to conception if God wills. That is why it is a practice not to be condemned as lawless as St John Chrysostom does with contraception that is "more effective" as in 100%, or nearly 100%, effective. Plus, NFP is entirely dependent upon the couple exercising self-control, whilst contraception is totally evil because it makes the pleasure of sex entirely divorced from either personal responsibility or the creation of a new life, and destroys any reason to be sexually continent. So, I think your objection, Serge, actually proves my feeling that NFP is well within the bounds of Orthodox Christian morality for couples planning a family.

[Maria]

In addition, if while using artificial birth control (ABC) pills one lacks "self-control" and fails to take that contraceptive drug every day, then there is the terrible risk of birth defects should a child be born. The poisonous effects of ABC pills last up to three months after stopping their use. They can cause a vitamin B deficiency that can lead to abnormalities in a newborn such as cleft-palates.

The only result of a lack of "self-control" with NFP might be an unexpected small blessing from God: the miracle of new life.

However, some couples can achieve a 99% effectiveness rate using NFP so that God's plan for new lives is thwarted.

In That Hideous Strength, by C.S. Lewis, a prophet declares that a couple who has voluntarily refrained from having any children has prevented the conception and birth of a unique child who might have saved the world from serious error, disease, or tribulation.

Regarding natural family planning, first, it does not work so well, and secondly, taking one's temperature daily without being sick is not so natural for me. There is homily of Saint John Chrysostom I don't remember when he condemns people using contraception with their mistresses.

I think that the phrase, "It does not work so well," is not a minus point. The whole reason why NFP is considered NOT contraception is because it is by nature still open to conception if God wills. That is why it is a practice not to be condemned as lawless as St John Chrysostom does with contraception that is "more effective" as in 100%, or nearly 100%, effective. Plus, NFP is entirely dependent upon the couple exercising self-control, whilst contraception is totally evil because it makes the pleasure of sex entirely divorced from either personal responsibility or the creation of a new life, and destroys any reason to be sexually continent. So, I think your objection, Serge, actually proves my feeling that NFP is well within the bounds of Orthodox Christian morality for couples planning a family.

[jgress]

I think condemning NFP for "thwarting" God's plan is going too far. It's not like couples have to have intercourse, so if they're abstaining by mutual consent, you can't say they're doing anything wrong.

[Maria]

I think condemning NFP for "thwarting" God's plan is going too far. It's not like couples have to have intercourse, so if they're abstaining by mutual consent, you can't say they're doing anything wrong.

Of course not. Many Orthodox Christians observe Great Lent, the Fast of the Apostles, the Fast of the Theotokos, the Fast of the Nativity, and the weekly Wednesday and Friday fasts by abstaining with mutual consent. Timing is everything, so during those lengthy fasts during Great Lent, Apostles' Fast, and Nativity Fast, conceiving a child would be almost impossible. Certainly, one could not claim that abstaining from marital intercourse to come together in prayer would be wrong.

[jgress]

I think condemning NFP for "thwarting" God's plan is going too far. It's not like couples have to have intercourse, so if they're abstaining by mutual consent, you can't say they're doing anything wrong.

Of course not. Many Orthodox Christians observe Great Lent, the Fast of the Apostles, the Fast of the Theotokos, the Fast of the Nativity, and the weekly Wednesday and Friday fasts by abstaining with mutual consent. Timing is everything, so during those lengthy fasts during Great Lent, Apostles' Fast, and Nativity Fast, conceiving a child would be almost impossible. Certainly, one could not claim that abstaining from marital intercourse to come together in prayer would be wrong.

I think I've heard this referred to as "Orthodox family planning".