What's Your Past And Present?

[OrthoDoc]

[My wife insists we go to Catholic Churches still and I cannot fathom the idea of not going to confession or communion for the next 5-10 years so my spiritual father suggested I keep attending Catholic Churches when my wife insists but that I 1) try to get her gently to go more often to Orthodox Churches and 2) I pray for our conversion. ]

And, if or when that happens, will you abide by the rules of the Orthodox Catholic Church and only commune in Orthodox Catholic Churches? Or will you continue to also commune in Papal Catholic Churches of both he Latin and Byzantine Rites because your wife insists, or you still think, its all the same?

You also mention some 'Old Calendar' Greek jurisdictions that are out of communion with canonical Orthodoxy. Do not the canons of the church matter?

Orthodoc

[Anastasios]

Orthodoc,

Why not attack OrthodoxyorDeath who regularly attacks your OCA on this forum often? Why focus on me?

I mentioned Metropolitan Cyprian--who is in union with ROCOR so is hence in communion with the rest of the Orthodox Church. And note that I said I liked him and was considering not only him but the Jerusalem Patriarchate, the Greeks of St. Irene Chysovalantou monastery (EP), etc. etc. Plus, the argument could be made, that since the canons of the Church do matter, I might be less inclined to join one of the "modernist" Orthodox Churches which do not follow the canons of the Church. Note that I said MIGHT as I have reached no decision and I am not saying which Orthodox Churches I think are modernist, nor would you be able to guess as this is something I have in my mind and have not expressed it publicly.

As far as if I would continue to commune in Byzantine Catholic Churches: what are you talking about? I don't think it's "all the same" as the Orthodox Church--which is why above I said I believe the Orthodox Church is the true Church, and will convert when I either 1) convince my wife to convert with me or 2) come to the conclusion that she is never going to convert. That is my ORTHODOX spiritual father's advice so why is that not good enough for you? And why would I convert to the Orthodox Church and then return to Byzantine Catholic sacraments? That would make NO SENSE! Why do you even think in such a mixed-up way?

anastasios

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

Is it not Anastasios' "canonical orthodoxy" which has told him to continue to commune in the Latin church - as the Holy Fathers would say, the food of the devils??

Are you so worried Orthodoc, that Anastasios' "canonical church" will contine to allow him to do so?

I think you are misplacing your confidence: putting it in "canonical orthodoxy" and not in Anastasios, who is only doing what they told him!

[bogoliubtsy]

Anastasios,

I commend you for having enough love and respect for your wife and the sacrament of marriage as to be patient and trust in God that he will bring you to his Church in due time.

[尼古拉前执事]

I mentioned Metropolitan Cyprian--who is in union with ROCOR so is hence in communion with the rest of the Orthodox Church.

True. Also a friend of mine who knows the TOC well said that they have agreements of communion with the Serbian Orthodox Church and Jerusalem Patriarchate.

[Justin Kissel]

Anastasios, Orthodoc, et al.,

Perhaps some of the confusion is that we are not working based on the same underlying beliefs? From a traditionalist perspective:

1) Orthodoxy is the true Church, and
2) Rome is fallen and has no grace whatsoever in her sacraments; further, she is heretical, therefore
3) To commune in her churches is not only profitless, but also very spiritually damaging and against the canons

I don't believe that you would agree with this line of thinking though, would you Anastasios? Or at least, you wouldn't see it as being as black and white as we traditionalists would?

That's perhaps part of the problem here? (though of course, considering the variety of the ecclesiological views, nothing that could be said or done would be agreeable with everyone). Also, perhaps we can switch from focusing on one person (Anastasios), and if we have to continue this subject (and could you split the thread Nicholas?), we could continue it as a general topic. We aren't an ecclesiastical court, and I feel very uneasy about having a conversation where it seems like we are condemning someone or finding them innocent. Wouldn't it be more proper to discuss the issues in general? Wouldn't this help us to not judge our brother when it was not our cross to do so, and also help some of us discuss things better as they wouldn't feel like they were defending themselves against mobs of traditionalists?

[bogoliubtsy]

Notice I just mentioned respecting his marriage.

Receiving communion in the Roman Catholic church is another story all together.