Blessed Seraphim Rose...blessed or not

[Seraphim Reeves]

While I do not dispute that sodomy is an ugly sin, and those who are inclined towards it have some deep, pathological problems that need to be worked out, I'm a little annoyed at the singular disgust this particular type of sin is met with. I think sometimes Orthodox of good will are too conditioned by the single minded obsession of evangelical Protestants in regard to this sin or sins of this nature.

While what follows may seem like an unfair caricture, I think it rings true.

Evangelical Protestant on Homosexuality: Same-sex attraction is a horrible evil, and homosexual acts are an abomination and contrary to nature.

God on Sodomy: Ditto.

Evangelical Protestant on Contraception: Allowable in marriage - nothing in God's word mitigates against it.

God on Contraception: "Then Judah said to Onan, "Go in to your brother's wife, and perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother." But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother's wife he spilled the semen on the ground, lest he should give offspring to his brother. And what he did was displeasing in the sight of the LORD, and he slew him also. (Genesis 38:8-10)

(Note: Before people start chiming in that Onan's only sin was not fulfilling the leverite tribal laws, this is not how the Fathers understood things, and interestingly enough, not how the Talmudic Rabbis understand things either; though the Talmudists are exceedingly literalistic in their understanding, Orthodox Jewish Rabbis allowing birth control so long as it doesn't involve "spilling the seed", ex. condoms are not allowed.)

Evangelical Protestant on Divorce: People fail. Forgive it and move on.

God on Divorce: Has not the one God made and sustained for us the spirit of life? And what does he desire? Godly offspring. So take heed to yourselves, and let none be faithless to the wife of his youth. "For I hate divorce, says the LORD the God of Israel... (Malachi 2:15-16)

Additionally, while conservative Protestants are obsessed with this particular sin (while otherwise demeaning marriage by their own licence, which is what makes the popularization/legitimization of homosexualism possible), in America at least they seem to align themselves with fiscal conservativism, which is not well known for it's commitment to the poor and social justice (an often abused term to be true, but still important nonetheless.) I've noticed these same people have a less than enthusiastic attitude towards poor immigrants, whose basic crime is not wanting their children to grow up as poor as they did.

Thus says the LORD: Do justice and righteousness, and deliver from the hand of the oppressor him who has been robbed. And do no wrong or violence to the alien, the fatherless, and the widow, nor shed innocent blood in this place. (Jeremiah 22:3)

What, God's sticking up for illegitimate children (it only says "fatherless"), and poor Mexicans who come to the U.S. with nothing save their hope for something better?!

"Then I will draw near to you for judgment; I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, against the adulterers, against those who swear falsely, against those who oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow and the orphan, against those who thrust aside the sojourner, and do not fear me, says the LORD of hosts. (Malachi 3:5)

Are the evangelical Protestants up and arms over corporate coruption, lying politicians (of all kinds, not simply Democrats), liars in general, and the wide spread injustice of big business not paying full time employees a living wage?

Sodomy is a sin, but it seems to me there are much bigger crimes being committed right now; bigger if only because of our total indifference to them. But I guess it's convienient - those "homos" are "over there", they're different. I don't have stock that pays nice dividends in a homo. I don't have to be a "fag" to cheat on my wife. I don't get to pay "every day low prices" on goods served to me by the working poor, when I have to deal with homosexuals.

And before anyone asks or speculates: I'm a happily married, "straight" (whatever that means - see the thread on homosexuality in the "Misc." section) man who often wonders why women bother with males in the first place (I own a mirror; case closed.) But I am more than a little annoyed, that a particular type of sin (one which we can convieniently excorcise) gets made into the epitomy of Godlessness, while so much else is winked at. If someone told you that Fr.Seraphim used to be a Wallstreet shyster, you'd probably think "oh, that's too bad...oh well." Yet, I've noticed when some people hear that he was once sexually confused, it's some huge, horrifying shock. Shame!

Seraphim

[Gregory2]

Seraphim,

I think you're on the nose there. Sexual sins are certainly a type of sin, but western, protestant society aggrandizes them to make them the "worst sin of all, unforgivable." The inconsistencies that you note among evangelical protestant thought are one of the reasons I can't strongly align myself strongly with either major political party in America (American political thought comes directly from a protestant framework). I agree with most of the values of the conservatives, but I think it's important to be generous like the liberals.

Many homosexual people I've known have been among the most pleasant and friendly people -- yet a part of me feels that I should dislike them because of their sexual sins. This is certainly passing judgment, something that we Christians aren't supposed to do.

As for Father Seraphim Rose, he did so much good and is such a beacon of light to American Orthodox Christians. As far as his sexual sins before he became Christian, I just say, who cares?

[Justin Kissel]

I think the issue (of a possible homosexuality) is only worrisome in that homosexuals cannot be ordained (even if it was activity that had ceased 20 or 30 years before). Once you've done it, the canons say that you cannot be ordained (it says the same things about other sexual sins, of course). It's not really any of my business though, so I'll just assume that IF there was any truth to it, that he told his bishop and the bishop used economia to get past the issue. Unless it can be proved that Fr. Seraphim hid his sins from the bishop, then it's not an issue. And to be quite honest, I have no wish to read arguments trying to prove that Fr. Seraphim hid this or didn't hide that. I think that's something for more mature people to deal with (like priests...), and then tell us laity their positions (though not necessarily giving explicit details).

[Andreas]

Is there any talk about the Orthodox Church declaring Fr. Seraphim (Rose) a Saint any time soon?

[Justin Kissel]

At the grass roots level, there is discussion of his possible sainthood, which is probably the best way to do it Most saints aren't declared saints until many years (even centuries) after their death. Until then, there is always the possibility of private veneration, though.

[Justin Kissel]

Andreas,

I don't think I've said this yet... welcome to the forum

Father Seraphim Rose seems to me a misunderstood person. I don't think I'm the one to try and explain him, though. I'll just say that, once you get past some of his more popular books, and especially into translations he did where he also wrote introductions and appendices, you get a more complete picture of the man. I guess that's true with any man (ie. the more you know, the more you'll understand him), but I think it's especially true in Fr. Seraphim's case.

I've really enjoyed some of Fr. Seraphim's work. He seemed to me to be a wonderful example of monasticism. He seemed to really get the "spirit" of Orthodox monasticism, which I think was because he really understood the concept of struggle in Orthodoxy. Perhaps that's presumptous of me to say, since people like me tend to overly-spiritualize struggle and don't really understand it, but there it is for what it's worth. I think that he had some interesting thoughts, and certainly some controversial words to say.

[Andreas]

Andreas,

I don't think I've said this yet... welcome to the forum

Thanks.