The Saint Euphrosynos Cafe

My parents are ex-Hispanic Catholics, now lapsed Evangelical Protestants. They had me when they were 15 and 17 and then got married the moment they both turned 18. They're still married to this day, which, is something I've always found very inspiring about them--there's not much I like about my parents, but this is one of the things I do like about them. Between having every single adult tell them that they're throwing their lives away and making a mistake, coming from dysfunctional families, never attaining a college education, having me unexpectedly, suffering a miscarriage, my dad being a drug addict, they're still together.

I think that divorce is a great evil, yet, at the same time, I think that monogamy and marriage is somewhat harder than many people would like to admit--especially in this godless society. We live in a world where due to economic and social factors, most people can't even fathom marriage until they are almost 30. Staying totally celibate until you are almost 30 is entirely unnatural (except in the case of monasticism) from a biological as well as spiritual perspective. I think that society has all of its sexual problems because attaining a monogamous marriage where you can properly relieve your natural sexual urges is being made harder and harder everyday. If marriage were easier to attain, and people got married younger, I think we would see less problems and sexual frustration in the world.

NadirGP wrote:

Maria,

Now, I am bit mystified, to say the least. You wrote:

“… divorced parishioner is usually penanced up to five years”, but for what?

Some divorced people are often not the “guilt party” because they have been given no other option but to sign the legal papers [otherwise … this or that …], even though, they were against divorce from their spouse.

Take a living example. My sister has been married to her husband for about forty years. Four years ago, my brother-in-law, after being separated from sister for some years - while living with another woman - forced her to sign the divorce papers. So who is the guilty party here, my sister or my ex brother-in-law? Why, in such a case, should a priest [the church] require long years of penance from a parishioner, when there is no culpability on her [or his] part in the first place?

An epitimia (penance) is not a punishment. It is a means to gain spiritual healing and growth.

I have a question about this:

I'm currently engaged. My fiancée is looking into Orthodoxy, she reads Scripture, talks to a priest, is intent on the path of it....

My question is this. What if we were to be married and later down in life, she apostasized from the faith? Utterly and completely. And theoretically we had kids?

Do you think it would be permissible to divorce her on the grounds of the spiritual well-being of the children? Especially if she was not just an apostate, but bitterly OPPOSED to Orthodoxy, to the point of encouraging the children away from the Church?

What are your thoughts?

maximus wrote:

I have a question about this:

I'm currently engaged. My fiancée is looking into Orthodoxy, she reads Scripture, talks to a priest, is intent on the path of it....

My question is this. What if we were to be married and later down in life, she apostasized from the faith? Utterly and completely. And theoretically we had kids?

Do you think it would be permissible to divorce her on the grounds of the spiritual well-being of the children? Especially if she was not just an apostate, but bitterly OPPOSED to Orthodoxy, to the point of encouraging the children away from the Church?

What are your thoughts?

First, this would not be a good way to begin marriage.

Marry her only if she is converting because she really believes that Holy Orthodoxy is the True Faith, and not because she wants to please you. This is why some priests will test a convert by delaying their reception into the Holy Church and hence, their marriage. If the convert thinks that the priest is mean or if the convert were to have second thoughts about being received into the Church, then that is for the best. Think about this. If a person were to convert for the wrong reason, then he/she would scandalize others and could be miserable. Imagine putting on a pious face all the time! Imagine the confusion such a person were to cause because she did not understand our ethos! If such a person were to convert because she loved her boyfriend, but she did not believe in Christ or love Him as her King and God, would not all of this be one big stage act and a diabolical lie? Her baptismal questions would not be sincere. All her sacraments would be void and sacrileges too, would they not?

In order for a marriage to last, a couple must be able to pray together. My husband and I began to pray while we were engaged and it helped our love and our faith to grow.

maximus wrote:

I have a question about this:

I'm currently engaged. My fiancée is looking into Orthodoxy, she reads Scripture, talks to a priest, is intent on the path of it....

My question is this. What if we were to be married and later down in life, she apostasized from the faith? Utterly and completely. And theoretically we had kids?

Do you think it would be permissible to divorce her on the grounds of the spiritual well-being of the children? Especially if she was not just an apostate, but bitterly OPPOSED to Orthodoxy, to the point of encouraging the children away from the Church?

What are your thoughts?

Maximus,

For a truly disciple of Jesus divorce is out.

And the Pharisees coming to him asked him: Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him. But he answering, saith to them: What did Moses command you? Who said: Moses permitted to write a bill of divorce, and to put her away. To whom Jesus answering, said: Because of the hardness of your heart he wrote you that precept.

But from the beginning of the creation, God made them male and female. For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother; and shall cleave to his wife. [ And they two shall be in one flesh. Therefore now they are not two, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. And in the house again his disciples asked him concerning the same thing.

And he saith to them: Whosoever shall put away his wife and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if the wife shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Mark 10:2-12

Therefore, if you consider divorcing your hypothetical wife [for one reason or another] then it is better for you to stay single.

Nadir

The Roman Catholic Church does not permit divorce.
The True Church allows for divorce and re-marriage.
So, for a true disciple of Christ, divorce is an option.

Lydia wrote:

The Roman Catholic Church does not permit divorce.
The True Church allows for divorce and re-marriage.
So, for a true disciple of Christ, divorce is an option.

It is important to realize that not every Orthodox Christian who divorces his/her spouse will be given a blessing to remarry. In addition, divorcées are usually penanced for five years, during which time they cannot receive any of the Holy Sacraments. If a person is mentally unstable or has other problems, the Bishop might not give a blessing for a second or third marriage. I knew two Orthodox Christian couples who were refused a blessing to remarry.

By the way, if an Orthodox Christian were to lose his spouse through death, he/she would have to approach the bishop for permission to marry (a second marriage). Again, the bishop may or may not grant this request. Usually the rule of three strikes and you are out applies, so if a widower loses three of his wives to childbirth or cancer, he cannot remarry again.

In the Catholic Church, a couple can seek an annulment after getting a divorce. The Catholic marriage tribunal also could rule that a person receiving an annulment would be better off staying single because of mental instability or other problem. A Catholic has no restriction on the number of times he can marry. Thus, technically, he could marry twice after losing two of his wives to childbirth and cancer, and marry twice after two annulments.

A true Christian and disciple of Christ our God would realize that divorce is a serious sin as a couple whom God has united in love have destroyed that love. Thus, a true Christian would strive to keep that love and faith burning bright.