Union of ROCOR and the MP?

[Justin Kissel]

Rumors abound (thanks mostly to the ROCiE) concerning the reunion of the Moscow Patriarchate and the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia. So the question is, how long do you think it will be before these two groups come together (into one again)?

[Lounger]

When the MP confesses its sins and asks for forgiveness it will happen.

[Liudmilla]

If there is any doubt as to the probability that rocor and mp will soon be together, take a look at the following article (it's in russian ..sorry guys)

http://vertograd.ru/lst/03/03/349c.html

From all the signs I see the union is not that impossible and very probable in the near future.

[Justin Kissel]

I wonder what would happen to the ROCOR parishes in America should they become one again with the MP. Would they become MP parishes? What would the OCA think about this dramatic increase in MP parishes in the U.S.? How would relations between the MP, ROCOR, and the OCA change should the ROCOR and MP become one again? Seems like a sticky--possibly volatile--situation.

[尼古拉前执事]

Here's my best guess. Outside America there is a rumbling that OCA should have never been created. Some consider that the MP can and should fold it back into its flock and return it to the proper calendar, traditions, etc. They say that the MP did this as part of Sergianism, so it can be refused.

There's just no way ROCOR could be incorporated under OCA IMO, besides ROCOR is interentional not just America-only.

[Liudmilla]

I would suggest that ROCOR would not become "part of" or be under any of the jurisdictions but would ultimately fashion it's own niche under the "umbrella" of MP patronage. I believe that the move would be a purely financial one, so that they can survive and continue as an independent church.

[Justin Kissel]

I hope I'll be forgiven for my rather strong stance here, but...

I believe that the move would be a purely financial one, so that they can survive and continue as an independent church.

That is impossible. If the MP is Orthodox, ROCOR will rejoin it (it's never considered itself a seperate Church--as if it were an autocephalous Church... and union with Russia is the only path ROCOR has to take, for a number of reasons). ROCOR will never join for "financial reasons" (what is this, Ferrara-Florence? False unity for earthly protection?). If the MP is not wholly Orthodox, such a unity would collapse--most likely immediately, under the weight of the protest from the right-believing within ROCOR. If, on the other hand, the MP is wholly Orthodox, then ROCOR will move towards going back into the MP, not for financial reasons, but because it's time to "go home" (now that the Holy Father is running the house again).

I sumbit also that the MP would revoke the OCA autocephaly should the ROCOR and MP unify, though of course the OCA wouldn't recognize the "taking back" of autocephalous status (though they would then be left, ironically, in the position they now attack ROCOR for being in... with very few friends to speak of. Though, of course, ROCOR is in that position by choice, to maintain her purity, while the OCA would be thrust into such a position because even her begininngs were questionable, and she was never fully accepted by "world orthodoxy"--even as OCA theologians constantly spoke as though they were).

The Orthodox in America will just be as divided as ever, though I think there will be an obvious choice in discerning who is wholly Orthodox, and who isn't.

Again, forgive me for such a strong stance. Yet, as someone becoming ROCOR, I can say that I wouldn't allow a union for "financial reasons".. and though I am insignificant, if enough "cells in the body of Christ" revolt, the hierarchy has to listen. Sigh, again forgive me. Perhaps I shouldn't participate on such threads with Lent approaching... it has me so... active (in the wrong way) and opinionated. I think I'll drop some of the threads I had planned on participating on... may you all have profitable conversations on them though!

Justin