Proto-Sergianism

[haralampopoulosjc]

How would the Patriarchs of Constantinople under Ottoman rule not qualify as "proto-Sergianist"? The Ecumenical Patriarch was an official of the Turkish government, who levied taxes on the Christians on behalf of the state, a state which was actively destroying Churches or converting them to Mosques, rounding up Christian boys and raising them as Moslems soldiers who were then used to persecute their own people, and stealing Christian girls and sending them off to harems, or worse. The bishops of the Ecumenical Patriarchate were forced to purchase their offices from the Turks, who gave them to the highest bidder (which is simony), and to raise that money from the already abused and downtrodden Christians under the Turkish Yoke. Patriarch Saint Gregory V of Constantinople was forced to excommunicate the Greek revolutionaries who revolted against the Turks. Yet there's no heresy called "Ottomanism" or anything to that effect. And if you look at what's left of the Christians in Turkey and the surrounding regions, the Ottomans did a more thorough job of decimating the Christian population of their territories than the Soviets did in Russia.

[SavaBeljovic]

How would the Patriarchs of Constantinople under Ottoman rule not qualify as "proto-Sergianist"? The Ecumenical Patriarch was an official of the Turkish government, who levied taxes on the Christians on behalf of the state, a state which was actively destroying Churches or converting them to Mosques, rounding up Christian boys and raising them as Moslems soldiers who were then used to persecute their own people, and stealing Christian girls and sending them off to harems, or worse. The bishops of the Ecumenical Patriarchate were forced to purchase their offices from the Turks, who gave them to the highest bidder (which is simony), and to raise that money from the already abused and downtrodden Christians under the Turkish Yoke. Patriarch Saint Gregory V of Constantinople was forced to excommunicate the Greek revolutionaries who revolted against the Turks. Yet there's no heresy called "Ottomanism" or anything to that effect. And if you look at what's left of the Christians in Turkey and the surrounding regions, the Ottomans did a more thorough job of decimating the Christian population of their territories than the Soviets did in Russia.

To be perfectly fair to Patriarch St. Gregory V, the Greek Revolution was spearheaded, funded and led primarily by Freemasons. He also wasn't the only Bishop who condemned the Revolution, I forget who it was but one of the Bishops wrote all that would come from it was democracy and rampant secularism, which is exactly what happened.

I am with the Russian Church, often what my Vladyka says on this subject: "Well what Constantinople did prior to the New Calendar didn't affect us. I'm certainly not going to defend everything they did."

Perhaps what happened in Greece was "proto-Sergianism", it certainly wasn't correct in any case. But in 1918 Patriarch St. Tikhon condemned those who would collaborate with the Communists, in 1928 the Catacomb Church led by St. Joseph of Petrograd condemned Sergianism specifically. In 1970 St. Philaret of New York once again anathematized Communism and the Church I belong to (the ROAC) put out a new anathema against Sergianism in 1998.

In any case, the Church can clearly define working with godless authorities as a heresy now. St. John Chrysostom thought the Theotokos did not endure pangs of childbirth and St. Justin the Philosopher thought the thousand year reign of Christ mentioned in the book of Revelation would be a literal one thousand year reign, but we also know they are Saints.

[Thomas_Deretich]

How would the Patriarchs of Constantinople under Ottoman rule not qualify as "proto-Sergianist"?

These patriarchs of Constantinople may have been pre-Sergianist, but they were not Sergianist, and they especially cannot be used to justify Sergianism. I agree that Ottomanism decimated the loyalty of people to Orthodoxy and led to massive apostasy from Christianity. Ottomanism treated Christians horribly (even genocidally, at select times), as you rightly state, but Communism was more evil, and more genocidal, in my opinion.

Consider these fourteen contrasts between Ottomanism and Communism:

(1) Ottoman doctrine sometimes said that Christians were people of the book and should be protected (and not converted) if they payed taxes and did not violently rebel. (2) Ecumenical Patriarchs were given substantial, real power to regulate Orthodox populations. (3) Ottoman power often shielded Orthodox from Uniatism, whereas Orthodox under Poland-Lithuania or Austria-Hungary were forcibly Uniatized. Greeks and Cypriots under Italian rule were partially Uniatized during these occupations. Several saints taught that God used Ottomans to protect Orthodox from Uniatism and heresy. (4) The "bribes" were supposed to be a form of legal taxation each time a new Ecumenical Patriarch took office, although the system was highly corrupt and immoral in practice. (5) The Constantinople resident synod was able to call greater synods that actually defended Orthodox dogma from RC and Protestant errors. Many highly important synods were held that defended pure Orthodox doctrine and worship, including exonerating the Kollyvades. (6) The Constantinople Church was able to elect some saintly ascetics from Mount Athos as patriarchs. (7) The Ottomans (some of whom were stolen Orthodox children, such as Mehmed-paša Sokolović) sometimes forced Greek Patriarchs to reestablish and respect Serbian and Bulgarian autonomy/autocephaly, which had been canonically established before Ottoman control. This contributed to the flourishing of indigenous Slavic Orthodox piety and reduced the the power of secular, corrupt Phanariot Greek bishops exploiting Slavic populations for financial gain. In this, the Ottomans were sometimes more "canonical" than the Greek patriarchs. The Ottomans in these cases respected the autocephalous structure of the Orthodox Church, which goes back to the Apostolic Canons. (8) Ottomans gave to Orthodox Christians primary control over Holy Land sites, not to RCs or Monophysites. (9) Patriarchs were not routinely forced to preach Islamic doctrine, Islamic foreign policy, or to denounced saints and martyrs as insane. (10) Ottomans did not infiltrate the Orthodox Church with fake-clergy renovationists and heretics and did not try to massively change Orthodox dogma, liturgy, monasticism, and church structure, as the Communists did with Renovationism, the Living Church, and the League of the Militant Godless. (11) Leninism and Stalinism were thoroughly genocidal, specifically against churchmen and churchwomen: clergy, monks, nuns, church teachers, and church workers---with tens of thousands executed by firing squad. Ottoman genocides occurred, especially against the Armenians and Pontic Greeks, but (to our knowledge) the Ottomans did not shoot tens of thousands of churchmen and churchwomen in an attempt to exterminate all the leaders of the Orthodox Church. (12) Communists forced MP people to preach the greatness of Stalin, to denounce martyrs and saints, to preach Soviet foreign policy and nuclear weapons policy, and to participate in the heresy of ecumenism to join in partial intercommunion with Roman Catholicism. (13) The Sergianists supported Soviet nuclear weapons policy, which was to exterminate hundreds of millions of innocent people in a nuclear holocaust if these innocent people resisted Communist expansion. (14) The Sergianists collaborated with actual genocides in other places of the world, such as the Red Holocaust/Holodomor in Ethiopia, with Russian Sergianists and Ethiopian Sergianists supporting Communism in both places.

In conclusion: COMMUNISM WAS WORSE THAN OTTOMANISM. Saints have taught that God used Ottomans to protect Orthodox from Uniatism and heresy. Nothing should be used to minimize the evil of genocidal Communism, which targeted traditional Orthodox Christians more than any other group. Nothing should be used to minimize the evil of Sergianism, which collaborated with Communism's open, dedicated, zealous campaign to exterminate traditional Christianity.