The trad English vs. contemporary English translations debate thread

[Stylite Nous]

Is there a clear benefit in using older KJV style of English liturgically (eg. when studying the Bible or chanting the Psalter) instead of contemporary English without thees/thous, or is that a personal preference?

Put in your 2 cents

[SavaBeljovic]

I realize the KJV had a lot of mistakes -- anywhere between 1000-1500 by most modern "scholarly" analysis -- but I would say if you want to use the KJV use a new KJV style translation that corrects the mistranslations, errors etc.

I personally like the early modern English style writing (thee and thou) and I wouldn't want Church services/Holy books to use anything but. I would say it's up to personal preference and or what you prefer.

They change a lot of things with translations to make it sound better for chanting, there was a New Calendarist deacon in Britain who wrote "the world's most accurate translation of the Book of Psalms" that was as literal and accurate as it gets and well, it'd be hard to chant.

I myself prefer the KJV since in the original 1611 printing, it mentioned in its foreword that it was a reference Bible and not meant to replace the Vulgate/Septuagint etc., it was created as a compromise by King James VI/I who was a bit of a "fence sitter" as it would be called as the Papists and various factions of Protestants were arguing endlessly. They used Roman Catholic sources to make it, and from my understanding it was attempting to be unbiased as to try to appease Calvinists, Anglicans, Papists etc., of course Queen Elizabeth I would force the KJV on people.

Most of the mistranslations seem like honest mistakes rather than say, the Geneva Bible, where the mistranslations were deliberate in order to support Protestant positions. I don't like how they used the Masoretic text for the Old Testament of course, but thankfully there's KJV style translations that use the Septuagint instead. I think people tend to fall either extreme of despising anything that looks like KJV or (like the low church Prot idea) of thinking the KJV is the only translation one would ever need -- ironic as in this country, the USA, most of the early settlers came over explicitly because they didn't want to use the KJV and BOCP. Yet here we are today.

Probably a bit more than my two cents, but I find the topic very interesting.

[Stylite Nous]

I like using the NewRome Press prayer book, which has a more contemporary style of English translation. It kicks off with an 'icon' and quote by Elder Paisios (which tips you off straight away that it's by and for WO), but other than that, I don't think it's a bad choice for an Orthodox person who does find that contemporary English gels better for private prayer.

[SavaBeljovic]

I like using the NewRome Press prayer book, which has a more contemporary style of English translation. It kicks off with an 'icon' and quote by Elder Paisios (which tips you off straight away that it's by and for WO), but other than that, I don't think it's a bad choice for an Orthodox person who does find that contemporary English gels better for private prayer.

I don't think I've seen that one, I personally use the HTM prayer book and I used to have the Jordanville prayer book, but I seemingly misplaced it. I collect prayer books and all the ones I use tend to use thee and thou rather than contemporary English for the most part. The OCA in the 1980s in their attempt to "Americanize" Orthodoxy (quite ironic, I might add, as even today I visited the grave of St. Alexei of Wilkes-Barre who left the RCC because of Americanism, yet now is the poster child for the OCA) started forcing everyone to use contemporary modern English. They now print services in both contemporary and early modern.

With Bible translations, I know some former Papists like myself who converted to Orthodoxy use Douay-Rheims. Douay-Rheims is okay but of course when I became a high church Prot I became obsessed with translation and such. I don't think the OSB is terrible -- well, some of the commentary is -- but its a decent translation from the Septuagint I suppose. I have seen the Colorado cult New Testament, it's okay I suppose. I don't really tend to obsess over translations like I used to. I personally think it'd be weird to hear "to You O Lord" instead of "to Thee O Lord" during the Divine Liturgy, but maybe that's just because that's I've only heard the latter.