The RC church: it has come to this

[Seraphim Reeves]

Nice to see you LatinTrad!

I don't understand why the existence of a freak "Catholic" group is a reflection on Catholicism as such.

Well, that depends on what is meant by "Catholicism." Obviously, they're out of step with the official catechism ("new catechism"). However, if you include the "new orientation" of the heirarchy (aggiornamento), recent "successors of St.Peter, Vicars of Christ" included, then it's not hard to see that the apple hasn't fallen far from the tree - it's a question of two degrees (one perhaps more extreme than the other) of a similar outlook.

Christ did indeed say that the gates of Hell would never prevail against His Church--against His Church founded on Peter.

...and upon the Holy Apostles and Prophets, with Christ as it's Head.

Seraphim

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

I always think it an inescapable fact that St. James presided over the council in Jerusalem, not Peter. What more powerful message can you have than that!

[Joe Zollars]

LatinTrad:

If you are an indultee, than you definatly should make a pilgrimage/retreat at the Notra Dame de Clear Creek Monastary in Hulbert Oklahoma. here is there website:

clearcreekmonks.org

a four whell vehicle is almost required for regular trips to the Monastary--aka they are really in the boonies.

If your in Europe, go to the Notra Dame de Fontgombault Monastary.

I must say regarding the good Monks at clear creek, that it is worth the effort to get there in time for Low Mass at 6:45 am. It is an amazing and beutiful site to see 7 Masses going on simultaneously, even if they are in a makeshift chapel and have poor quality vestments. I must also say taht part of the amazing part of it was it was a new record for me. I have seen 2 Masses and even 3 Masses but 7 is amazing. And when those Novices beat their breast during the Confiteor and Domine Non Sum Dignus, the whole chapel reverberates with the sound. The only thing I don't like is that they are not three confiteor people.

Their High Mass after Terce every day is also amazing for its beuty. The Only Mass I have seen that rivaled it asthetically speaking is the Easter Morning Pontifical High Mass offered by His Excellency Eugene Gerber at St. Anthony's Church in Wichita.

I must say however that I greatly prefer Low Mass for its simplistic beuty over High Mass myself, but then again I am sort of an odd-ball traditionalist.

If nothing else make sure an go for one of the offices to hear their phenominally beutiful Chant. they are now in the corridor of an old horsebarn as the chapel (the old stalls are their cells) and even in such a locality the quality of their chant has not been rivaled by any other group I have seen yet.

Joe Zollars

[Joe Zollars]

also make sure and check out their giftshop after High Mass. They have cd's of thier chant and from their Mother House in Fontgamboult. The proceeds of which go to the support of their monastary. Also they are one of the few Catholic gift shops I have ever seen that do not sell those satanic images from Monastary Icons. They sell ones from St. Isaac of syria Skeet insead (no joke, I bought one of St. Michael--my middle-name sake for Miguel--don't ask I am not hispanic and have no Idea how I got this name).

Joe Zollars

[Jakub]

LT,

Welcome my NYY friend , be not afraid, the majority of members here are very loving Orthodox Christians, some are moderates, some very zealous in faith and beliefs, which I have learned from and appreciate ( even though they ignore me now ), in my eyes they are my brethern and I do care about them all, how else do we aquire enlightenment ?

Relax and converse ,

james

[Justin Kissel]

I don't think anyone ignores anyone here

[Joe Zollars]

I ignore myself sometimes

Joe Zollars