The RC church: it has come to this

[sue57]

This is a bit of a follow-up to the Spong thread. Being Catholic but attracted to Orthodoxy, of course, I have some very confused feelings. However, some of my objections to the RC church can be summed up in a website that is an obscenity and an affront. It is the site of a break away schismatic "Catholic" congregation in my city. Seriously, read this and thank God that you are Orthodox and know the truth. This is so horrific viewer discretion is advised

www.spirituschristi.org

Wow, the animal channel is looking for tigers in Russia! Got to go...

[Joe Zollars]

that is a vagante congregation, but they don't loook out of place for the NO now do they?

Joe Zollars

[Seraphim Reeves]

If I remember correctly, these folks are a schism from the Novus Ordo RCC. It happened a few years ago. I remember reading about them when this was all going down.

Apparently it started out with a pinko priest, who indulged the pretentions of one of his female "lay eucharistic ministers." Said ministers were given albs to wear, and were in many respects (both in appearance and function) indistinguishable from deacons. The smelley stuff hit the fan though, when this particular female "minister" was allowed to wear a stole (symbol of sacerdotal ministry, as well as having authority to minister from their bishop - though I doubt the latter occured to them, since these folks tend to be antagonistic towards any kind of authority). The bishop of Rochester moved the priest from the parish (which incensed the liberals who were in the majority in this parish), and ordered this woman not to wear the stole.

After several interventions (including one I read about when this bishop was treated quite poorly by the parishoners - their insolence was incredibly obnoxious), the parish formally broke away from the diocese.

What I find interesting about this incident, is that there was a climate for such a situation to develop in the first place. Some say "oh these folks are not the result of the Novus Ordo." In truth they are, since I really doubt a group this outrageous would have just appeared in a vacuum, or would have been indulged for as long as it was in better times.

Seraphim

[sue57]

Seraphim,
You are right; the "bishop" who "ordained" this women was Novus Ordo.

I should be clear that the most troubling thing about this, I find, are the links, most of these sites are connected with the "official" RC church.

Btw, when the new priest appeared at Corpus Christi Church, the parishioners took the Host and threw it back at the priest. I believe this is the insolence you mentioned. These people were indulged for years. The Roch. bishop is sympathetic to their agenda, and he's a disgrace as well.

I have looked at hundreds of church websites it seems (all Orthodox), and I have never seen anything like this site (not, suprising in the Orthodox world obviously), but at the risk of sounding cliched, this whole situation is based "on the cult of personality." Look at their site. It's all about them. One of the priests who left with them, married shortly after they broke away.[/i] You know, "I want to marry, so I don't leave the church, I find my own, better, breakaway church." I'm a women who wants to be ordained, so I don't join the Episcopalians, I find my own church!! So arrogant.
But true, this was permitted for years. I don't have enough theological knowledge (I don't have any!), to analyze the errors this church represents, but it seems obvious that the RC church, to paraphrase the Spiritus Christi website, is being "complicit in it's own destruction."

[Daniel]

This whole thing just seems incredibly dorky. It looks like a total joke!!! Does any one in the community take them seriously? And what on earth does Refuse to Participate in Your Own Oppression mean???

[sue57]

Hi Daniel,
Firstly, the woman "priest" was a convert to Catholicism, I think she converted when she got married. There is the minor question of why anyone would convert, of their own volition, to a religion that they had fundamental differences with?? Strange.
Yes, they are taken very seriously here. Rivers of ink were spilled over this nonesense. I would say in Rochester, the support for this church is over 75%. The media love these people. Fortunately, things have died down a bit. Yes, it's very oppressive when you voluntarily join a religion and then decide that following its doctrines is just like being sold into slavery, or put in a concentration camp!! I'm sure most middle- class, homeowners in American feel very opressed!! Forgive my sarcasm, but that site really makes me crazy!
I guess they just wanted the bishop to say "yeah, whatever." All I can say is, if these people represent modern Catholicsim, I can see why ROCOR opposes ecumenism! It sounds insular at first, but I mean, look at the craziness going on!

[Gregory2]

sues57,

This situation is very much in-line with 20th century Westernism/ Western Christianity -- down with authority, down with tradition, do your own thing. (Actually, I suppose it's been going on longer than just the 20th century!)

I don't think that God wants us to judge these folks, but suffice it to say that their brand of Christianity is very different from that of the Historical Church, despite the many good works it sounds like they have done.

If you're ever interested in Orthodoxy or in visiting an Orthodox parish, I'm sure you'd be welcome anywhere. Just remember that you cannot commune unless you're a baptized Orthodox Christian.

In Christ,
stgregory