"Natasha, are you saying that some how American Orthodox saints are to be considered second class saints to 'old country' saints? Does that also include the most Holy and Blessed St John Maximovitch?"
Good job at taking my comment way out of context. Honestly, I don't even know how you came to that ridiculous assumption.
Natasha wrote:Good job at taking my comment way out of context. Honestly, I don't even know how you came to that ridiculous assumption.
I have to say that that is exactly how I took it, also.
I am apalled by the way people who know absolutely NOTHING about blessed Olga or the multitude of native Alaskans who are asking for her elevation are shooting off their mouths and attacking the OCA like it was a saint factory intent on elevating as many unworthy "saints" as possible.
Is this the best "traditionalism" has to offer?
You write -
[From what I've read, she seems like a very pious woman. However, even that is difficult to discern considering that many of her "pious" qualities also happen to be natural qualities of her people (in other words, it's hard to tell if she was pious through divine grace or just a nice, kind person like most of the rest of her people). If there are sources that speak of her life, any miracles associated with her, etc., please let us know.]
Didn't you read the account of her funeral?
May I ask if you are a recent convert? I ask not to be catty but because your concept of what a saint is and the so called requirements for a saint seem more western than Orthodox. I would suggest you access the following website address maintained by the GOA regarding sinthood in the Holy Orthodox Church -
Saints In The Orthodox Church-
http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/artic ... le8044.asp
Excerpts -
In our society, however, who can be addressed as a saint? Who are those men and women and children who may be called saints by the Church today? Many Orthodox theologians classify the saints in six categories:
The Apostles, who were the first ones to spread the message of the Incarnation of the Word of God and of salvation through Christ.
The Prophets, because they predicted and prophesied the coming of the Messiah.
The Martyrs, for sacrificing their lives and fearlessly confessing Jesus Christ as the Son of God and the Savior of mankind.
The Fathers and Hierarchs of the Church, who excelled in explaining and in defending, by word and deed, the Christian faith.
The Monastics, who lived in the desert and dedicated themselves to spiritual exercise (askesis), reaching, as far as possible, perfection in Christ.
The Just, those who lived in the world, leading exemplary lives as clergy or laity with their families, becoming examples for imitation in society. Each and every one among all these saints has his or her own calling and characteristics: they all fought the "good fight for the faith" (1 Tim. 6:12 and 2 Tim. 4:7). All of them applied in their lives the scriptural virtues of "justice, piety, fidelity, love, fortitude, and gentleness" (1 Tim. 6:11).
CANONIZATION OF SAINTS The Orthodox Church does not follow any official procedure for the "recognition" of saints.
<snipe>
The saints are saints thanks to the grace of God, and they do not need official ecclesiastical recognition.
<snipe>
(*) St. Basil the Great was accepted immediately after his death as a saint of the Church by the people.
[The OCA also seems to recognize a half dozen saints or "possible saints" that no one else does (or, at least, few others recognize); e.g., recognized saints such as Alexis Toth, Raphael of Brooklyn, John Kochurov, Alexander Hotovitzky; and also possible saints such as Matushka Olga Michael and Fr. Alexander Schmemann.]
Then -
[I know, it's a bit early perhaps, but still you see some people who are obviously not saints being pushed as possible saints (e.g., Fr. Alexander Schmemann). ]
Ever hear of localized saints? Any saint canonized by a specific Orthodox Church does not have to be recognized or venerated by all Orthodox Churches. May I remind you that not all Orthodox churches recognize the canonization of St John Maximovitch or the Russian royal family for that matter. This certainly does not make them a non-saint because of it
I don't know where you get the idea Fr Alexander Schmemann is being considered for sainthood. Me thinks you are quoting rumors. If I am wrong, provide me with the resources that state otherwise.
[Historically, most saints were venerated locally for hundreds of years before they became widely known and universally accepted saints (especially during chaotic contexts, which many of the possible "saints" of North America lived in).]
Really! Then why are you recognizing St Alexis Toth? Do you recognize St John Maximovitch or the Russian royal family? If so, you shouldn't be... going by the criteria you are exponding here. You better read about the very first saints canonized by the Russian Orthodox Church - Sts Boris and Gleb. Has it been hundreds of years since St John Maximovitch walked amongst us? Has it been hundreds of years since all the canonized saints of the communist yoke walked amongst us? Has it been hundreds of years since the Russian royal family walked amongst us? If it has time has gotten away from me and I'm much older than I thought!
As stated previously, St Basil the Great was accepted as a saint immediately after his death.
Orthodoc
In my previous post I never attacked any saints or even mentioned anything negative about the OCA. Anyone who even suggests that I would consider any saint as something "second-class" SERIOUSLY offends me.
Again, I reiterate, my simple observation is that the OCA publishes a lot of material (whether it be booklet or calendar form) about the American saints. Why is it bad to acknowledge that it would be in the OCA's best interest to let the public know more these saints?
I think certain people are reading exactly what they want to in these messages.
I too don't doubt Matushka Ogla's saintliness- the little bit I know about her comes from the info that was provided which I read at an earlier time. I'm not saint knocking either! Geesh... just opening up a discussion. What made me think about it was the homily I recently read at the 1903 glorification of St. Seraphim of Sarov. The homilist made it sound as if there were teams of private Church investigators working for 20 years or something making sure that St.Seraphim should be canonized! However, we can also see that most early Russian saints were warriors who protected the land from foreign invasion- not exactly today's most common concept of saintliness. I just think the way the OCA deals with American saints(i'm not doubting their saintliness, as i have much veneration for a number of them!) seems a bit forced at times, coming down from the top rather than from the people below.
[Again, I reiterate, my simple observation is that the OCA publishes a lot of material (whether it be booklet or calendar form) about the American saints. Why is it bad to acknowledge that it would be in the OCA's best interest to let the public know more these saints?]
Could it possibly be because we live in America and the OCA is the American Church? Nah! Can't be that because that's too easy!
Does the Church in Russia spend most of it's time honoring local Greek saints?
Orthodoc
