How do you define a true Orthodox Church?

[NadirGP]

As a new member of this forum, I am asking the following question: How do you define a true Orthodox Church?

To a Catholic observer, like myself, I find a bit puzzling, to say the least, to be asked to what jurisdiction one belong. There is a long list of them: the GOC, MTOX, GOC/HOTCA, ROAC, ROCiE, RTOC, ROCOR and so on.
Historically, the true Orthodox Church is the one that adhered to the first seventh councils – fifth-sixth century (?).

As well as that, nowadays, please correct me if I am wrong, the litmus test for an Orthodox church/jurisdiction to be worthy of its name, is to stay away from the new trend of ecumenism and the new Calendar. Is that so?

So once that has been established [my primary question], the other question is, which jurisdiction is entitled to define which is the true church and which is not – the MP, the ROCOR or the synod of Orthodox churches?

Another question and last is as follows: Anybody, who is in search for a true Orthodox Church anywhere in the world, where he/she should look and what is the right question to ask, in order to avoid making a false path?
In my own case, there is not even the risk to make a false path, because there are no Orthodox churches here, where we live – many are Protestants and one Catholic (Novus Ordo). The only one I know of – a Greek Orthodox - is two hours drive from our place, and I am not even sure it is genuine.

[Maria]

True Orthodox are those who honor and respect our Holy Orthodox Traditions and Canons, including honoring the day set aside for Pascha by the Holy Canons and the Calendar of our Saints (the so-called Old Calendar). True Orthodox also observe the Holy Canons advising us not to pray with heretics, thus, we are to avoid the errors of Ecumenism. This definition is not exhaustive and is in my own words, so if I have omitted something, please dear readers, correct me.

The speech below may interest you. It was delivered in March 2007 by Fr. Maximus (Marretta)

• The Problem of Conservative New Calendarism

  I would like to speak to you today about the problem of conservative New Calendarism. By conservative New Calendarists I mean those who consider the institution of the Gregorian calendar and involvement in the ecumenical movement to be misguided, unfortunate, or even to some degree heretical, but nevertheless remain in churches which follow the New Calendar and foster Ecumenism. While conservative New Calendarists rightly consider Orthodoxy to be the one and only true Church of Christ and adhere to Orthodox doctrines and practices with admirable zeal, they find themselves under bishops who deny those doctrines and shun traditional piety. Although this situation is certainly uncomfortable for them, they are obligated to justify it, and to this end employ the following argument: the participation of our bishops in the ecumenical movement is wrong, but it is only an abuse, not a heresy; and if it even descends to the level of heresy, it occurs only on a personal, not an official, level. Thus the church as a whole is not implicated in the heresy, and one may in good conscience continue in communion with the bishops in question. This line of reasoning underlies virtually all serious attempts to justify remaining in the New Calendarist, or Ecumenist church, and not returning to the Old Calendarist, or traditional Orthodox Church.

For the complete speech, please go to: http://www.hotca.org/orthodoxy/orthodox ... alendarism

[NadirGP]

True Orthodox are those who honor and respect our Holy Orthodox Traditions and Canons, including honoring the day set aside for Pascha by the Holy Canons and the Calendar of our Saints (the so-called Old Calendar). True Orthodox also observe the Holy Canons advising us not to pray with heretics, thus, we are to avoid the errors of Ecumenism. This definition is not exhaustive and is in my own words, so if I have omitted something, please dear readers, correct me.

What Canons and when were these Canons established? Are these Canons the equivalent to what the Catholic Church calls the Canon Law?

More to the point, within the Orthodox Church organization, is there such thing as the Ultimate Authority, which oversees all ecclesiastic theological, moral and disciplinary matters? In the positive, what is the name?

Moreover, can you say that any Orthodox Church that joins [or joined] the WCC can still be a true church?

[joasia]

How do you define a true Orthodox Church? To a Catholic observer, like myself, I find a bit puzzling, to say the least, to be asked to what jurisdiction one belong. There is a long list of them: the GOC, MTOX, GOC/HOTCA, ROAC, ROCiE, RTOC, ROCOR and so on. Historically, the true Orthodox Church is the one that adhered to the first seventh councils – fifth-sixth century (?). As well as that, nowadays, please correct me if I am wrong, the litmus test for an Orthodox church/jurisdiction to be worthy of its name, is to stay away from the new trend of ecumenism and the new Calendar. Is that so?

Yes. That is so. And there cannot be any theological innovations which creep in from the West.

So once that has been established [my primary question], the other question is, which jurisdiction is entitled to define which is the true church and which is not –the MP, the ROCOR or the synod of Orthodox churches?

These examples fall into the ecumenist group so they are already outside the true Orthodox Church. Just step out of the ecumenist ring and you will get closer to the true Orthodox Church. The MP have always been handled by the communist government. ROCOR eventually and sorrowfully joined them. The synod of Orthodox churches are just plain ecumenists. They don't care about the true faith.

Another question and last is as follows: Anybody, who is in search for a true Orthodox Church anywhere in the world, where he/she should look and what is the right question to ask, in order to avoid making a false path?

Find out what jurisdiction they're with. Once you get familiar with who is who then you will know. You can find that information on the internet. And of course, you can get all that information here.

What Canons and when were these Canons established?

Canons are basically expressions of the faith. They were practiced in faith and eventually set down in writing because of the heresies that were battling the Church. The Ecumenical Councils were gathered in order to deal with great tribulations of heresies. The hierarchs needed to set down the specific points. In the First Ecumenical Council, there were bishops present who had experienced torture for their faith. Some lost a limb and some their tongues (because they spoke out for the faith). This was not a small event. The Nicene Creed is a Canon that was established at the First Ecumenical Council. It is the heart of our faith as Christians.

Are these Canons the equivalent to what the Catholic Church calls the Canon Law?

No. These are the Pope's laws that are more legalized and systematic, like indulgences. The true meaning of the Canons is the confession of the faith which is preserved from the Apostles who got it from Jesus Christ.

More to the point, within the Orthodox Church organization, is there such thing as the Ultimate Authority, which oversees all ecclesiastic theological, moral and disciplinary matters?

Yes.

In the positive, what is the name?

Jesus Christ.

Moreover, can you say that any Orthodox Church that joins [or joined] the WCC can still be a true church?

The WCC is a farce. They don't even care about being Christian. They don't even mention Jesus Christ as our Saviour. You probably read their stuff. Show me where they say that we should worship Jesus Christ as our Saviour. Their aim is to unite all religions under a false pretext of humanitarianism. Well, who created us? If they are Christian, why don't they state that?

[arcmode]

I would define the True Orthodox Church as being where there is a bishop who is in the line of Apostolic succession and who does not teach heresy or commune with those who do.

That may seem simplistic, and I am new to such questions, having got where I am more by providence, patience and prayer than by an intellectual effort, so maybe other members will disagree, but I think that is the essence of it.

[arcmode]

Moreover, can you say that any Orthodox Church that joins [or joined] the WCC can still be a true church?

Only if they get kicked out on their first day

[NadirGP]

More to the point, within the Orthodox Church organization, is there such thing as the Ultimate Authority, which oversees all ecclesiastic theological, moral and disciplinary matters?

(joasia): Yes.

In the positive, what is the name?

(joasia): Jesus Christ.

joasia,

That is not a good answer.
My question deals with the organization (i.e., church’s administration) of the church and not with the organism (i.e., the Church perse). Organization and organism of the church are two different entities.

Nadir