NEW MARTYRS OF THE TURKISH YOKE

[mmcxristidis]

Although I consider Catherine (and others that post here) to be personal friends, or at least, good acquaintances, and inasmuch as I personally like oriental/eastern/middle eastern culture, in general, I find that is appalling how Islam as a religion and culture, is being promoted and defended here. Whoever thinks that Muslims are better than Orthodox Christians, and that Islam, or any other religion is better than Orthodoxy, should leave this forum and convert (if not done already) to whichever faith is pleasurable to them. Further affiant sayeth naught.

Agreed, all except the part about her being a personal friend and good acquaintance

[mmcxristidis]

Catherine won't be participating in this forum anymore.

Farewell to the Agent Provocateur of Islam, Catherine5 aka Cheetah88 aka Bess. Don't let the door hit you on your way into Mohamed's paradise. Try Yahoo Chat for Islam if you want a captive audience.

[StephenG]

The vinegar seen in this thread I found somewhat saddening.

That there have been, are and will be martyrs under one form of Islamic yoke is nothing less than a fact. That earlier European romantics chose to see Islamic as inherently tolerant was displaying only their willingness to see part of the historical picture and ignore what did not suit their prejudice.

I too have those Moslem I respect and look up to, including the father of King Hussein of Jordan, King Abdullah. His kindness to a Russian emigre girl whose wish to enter a convent was thwarted by her parents until King Abudullah intervened will stay with me.

However ask the the Pakistani born Anglican bishop (whose name eludes) of Moslem tolerance and you may find his insights disturbing, yet without falling into the trap of rabid haters of Islam sometimes seen on the web. Or the Pakistani christians or those of Egypt who are regularly killed by Moslems, as are others in Iraq.

My city has an extremely large Moslem population. Many are no or little different from those living around them. But we sadly have jihadists to whom 'tolerance' is a dirty word and who preach an intolerant faith.

[jgress]

I agree, Stephen. And it wasn't just Catherine5 that was providing the vinegar. It's also interesting that since she was banned, there has been no new activity until your post. It's almost as if the other posters were only interested in ECafe as long as there was a fight going on.

[jgress]

All right, well maybe we can fix this by thinking of some positive contributions. For my part, I'll try to think up some questions or thoughts and we can get some kind of constructive discussion going.

[mmcxristidis]

Exactly my point for a long time … instead of trying to help each other or provide news and information, this forum became, for the last few months, a battlefield, mainly against Catherine, with "no reason. I would not try to be the devil’s advocate, but I suspect that her love for archaic and unknown cultures, many of them presently professing the Islamic religion, made her say and defend certain things that are, to everyone’s knowledge, indefensible. One thing is to admire some cultures and traditions, some already almost forgotten by “the world”, and another is to superimpose those cultures and traditions on our Orthodox Faith and our Orthodox Traditions and customs. Whether we are “American” (an American could be anything, ethnically), Greek, Russian, Spanish, Arab, etc., we are foremost, Orthodox Christians, and if we do not defend our Faith HERE, then what’s the point of even having this site, which should serve as a stand against ecumenism, and as a teaching tool for those that know nothing or little about our Faith. Sadly, once again, this became a combat zone to attack each other, something that should have been stopped from the beginning. There can be disagreements and healthy discussions, but it is very sad to see how Orthodox Christians keep insulting and attacking each other, sometimes for minute reasons. Let’s not even talk about the gentlemanly behavior, or more appropriately, the lack of it towards her, but that’s another subject of conversation.

I find this statement of yours to be rather a oxymoron. First you say that this forum became "a battlefield against Catherine5( aka Cheetah88 aka Bess) with no reason", then later you say "if we do not defend our Faith HERE, then what’s the point of even having this site". Besides myself, several others here had rebuked her, while she was here, for her blatant promotion of Islam and it's "saints" and "holy sites" ect. vs. her anti-Christ attacks on Orthodoxy and her Saints as well as other off the wall remarks. Now, after the fact, you are somewhat rebuking her. I don't see what good that does now that she is banned from posting here. Instead, you seemed to have enjoyed her compliments to you on your " balanced and intelligent" postings while ignoring her attacks on Orthodoxy, until now, and only somewhat. I think the oil needed a bit of vinegar.
Now it seems to me you have been attacking me, previously and in this last posting of yours as not being a "gentleman". Should I have just have looked the other way and said nothing, or just been nice and agreed with her blasphemy's because "her love for archaic and unknown cultures, many of them presently professing the Islamic religion" made it OK ? I still say she is a wolf in sheep's clothing no matter how many times she claimed to be an Orthodox Christian. Her statements proved otherwise.
I'm happy now that she has finally been banned, but still find it's a little too late and for perhaps the wrong reason. Johnathan banned her because she persisted in attacking the NFTU and it's personnel, which is a good thing, however she should have been banned sooner for the reasons of her attacks on Orthodoxy. True she did post much, not all bad, but for the most part it was in my opinion a lot of hot air and monkey graham and not a very good reason for putting up with her for so long.

[mmcxristidis]

I don’t need Catherine’s (yes, that’s her real name) praises nor your insults. I guess that after 15 years you still do not know me, but it is ok. This would surely be my last post here. What I said, and now repeat, is that you, yes you, attacked her and mocked her from the beginning, making fun of all her, the same way that you mock and make fun of everyone that doesn’t agree with you (don’t you think its time to grow up, you are not a teenager anymore?). Her blasphemies, which I criticized in private, came later on, when she stated she wouldn’t read Hieromonk Seraphim (Rose)’s writings because he “may” have been a homosexual in his youth, or when she denied the martyrdom of the New Martyrs of the Turkish Yoke, along with many other unnecessary comments that arose from her lacking to see the provocation and falling into delusionary thoughts about the Islamic religion. I do not see anything wrong in calling others “saints”, “bishops”, “patriarchs”, etc., since that’s the title they have in those religions or cultures. They may not be our saints and hierarchs, but whomever history has assigned a title to, we are nobody to take it from them, whether we recognize it or not.
I hope that you all can find someone else to yell at, since this place lost its purpose long time ago, now being just a forum to mock others and to promote Metropolitan Pavlos’s jurisdiction, with no respect to other people’s views and positions.

I think I know you better than you think Miguel and I won't go into anymore of your quirks ( and I feel there are many ) other than to say you think you know better than anyone else about every subject and really really hate it when someone disagree's with you. I met you when you were about 15 and barely spoke any English and even then you acted the same way. Just because you spent a couple years at Jordanville then left, although it may have been justifiably so, doesn't make you some kind of spiritual guru. I must say you probably would have made a good priest along the lines of those who can't admit their wrong about anything they say or do. Well that's what I think and you probably think somewhat the same about me but the difference is I can admit I was wrong about a subject if I find I was wrong.
I don't mock and make fun of everyone who I disagree with, only when I think they deserve it. It may not be the best tactic to use but at least get's their attention. If Catherine5 said something I found really stupid on a public forum I see nothing wrong with criticizing her publicly. If you did rebuke her in private then I can't see it did any good since she continued to say the same stuff over and over again.
I'm not yelling at you, THIS IS YELLING. I've heard you threaten to quit forum's over and over again if your disagreed with, now your threatening it again, as if the lack of your presence will cause some great spiritual disaster to befall us. Get over yourself, please.