sojourner_tim
I’m just responding to your first post. I see that there are many pages afterwards, so maybe somebody has already mentioned what I did. I’ll read the rest later.
What i was trying to say (and i'm sorry if i was not clear) was that although they were being inspired by the holy spirit false doctrine was still finding its way into the church and that is why the writers of the NT wrote many of their letters, to correct those false doctrines and teachers.
Not quite sure what you’re looking for since false doctine was taught to Adam and Eve also. It has always existed.
Aren't Presbyters just teachers or elders or overseers in the church?
Actually, the term overseers applies to a bishop; episcopate. The word in Greek means overseer.
I do not however know much about writings of how church was conducted back then other than the bible do you know of any specific place in those councils i could read about that or anywhere else for that matter? if not that is ok. I'm just curious
I’ve read so many articles and writings of saints in the passed 20 years that I can’t pinpoint the specifics. It’s a matter of reading alot. I didn’t have the internet in my time, so I bought Orthodox books and subscribe to periodicals like Living Orthodoxy and Orthodox America and Orthodox Life. Not to mention, practicing the faith by going to Church and talking to others who have knowledge. You can find many writings by the holy fathers about your concerns. Now you have the internet so there is more access. I used to have one of the volumes of the Post-Nicene Fathers that was all Seven Ecumenical Councils. It was pretty indepth. And like I said, the Rudder is a good source too. What you need to do is find the writings of saints from the first and second centuries, if you want an overview of their way of living.
But, I can tell you that an excellent book written by Abbe Guettee explains the intricacies of the faith. I have only the one: The Papcay: It’s Historic Origin and Primitive Relations with the Eastern Churches. He was born into a Roman Catholic family(1816), but after much studies, realized that the true faith was in Orthodoxy. He even includes ancient letters of the bishops from the early centuries. He had access to the ancient documents in the Vatican. becauce they commissioned him to write a glorification of their success, but the more he read, the more he realized that they were liars. He cites letters that show the struggle between the the bishop of Rome and the bishop of Constantinople. He was a Roman monk and converted to Orthodoxy in the Russian Church. He even met Patriarch Tikhon.
http://www.roca.org/OA/126-127/126g.htm
I believe your average church service should include: reading of the scriptures and teaching on them, prayer, worship through music, fellowship, and communion. Maybe the differences between your "liturgy" and my "service" are more just about style than substance.
The Orthdox faith lives in worship to God by petitions, glorifications and thanksgiving and of course the central focus of Liturgy is Holy Communion.
As Paul said, "May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world" Gal 6:14. I boast not in men, theologies, or churches but in Christ alone. I believe being in Christ is being in the Promised Land not a barren wasteland.
It is important to understand the quote in the text that it is given. I don’t know if you are purposefully trying to mislead or if it is from simple ignorance, but the quote above was meant for a specific situation and NOT to justify your view of life; to accomodate your comfort. You take a quote from Galatians, which was specifically addressed to the Jews and to teach them about the true Messiah. His whole Epistle was a refutation to their rejection of Jesus Christ as the Messiah. The portion you chose to quote is a response to the Jewish tradition of circumcision. St. Paul was explaining that his faith is in the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, the Messiah. And that he will die for that faith. But, he was trying to explain, to the Jews, that the letter of the law, which included circumcision was irrelavent - only the crucifixion of Jesus Christ is the truth of the faith of God and he was confessing that to them. He was refuting the Jewish Old Covenant in place of the New Covenant. He was trying to help them believe in the New Covenant.
You want to know how the ancient church lived, but you misquote the Holy Bible. That’s why you need to read a lot more. Read the whole chapter.
May I ask you what do you believe leads one to salvation? I believe that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead then you will be saved, that salvation is by grace through faith, not of works lest anyone should boast.
I can say that Jesus Christ is the Son of God a million times in a day and I still won’t feel that I am safe and saved. Even if I lose my job or my family, because I refuse to reject my belief, for their sake, I cannot assume that I am saved. I have the faith. I really do. But, I think that it is human pride to assume that one is saved because he/she believes and that it’s a sealed deal. Even the holy fathers considered themselves to be bigger sinners amongst others and they lamented about their salvation. You really should read the lives of the saints.
Do you agree because if you do then it leads me once again to believe that maybe our differences are more about style and culture than substance really.
The difference is about the reality of faith and that is the substance. You have a watered-downed version.
As long as we both believe in the one true God and are allowing God to use us to bring people to Christ then amen praise God. Do you all agree?
I will agree with that. I can bring others to God because He uses me as the vessel, but it doesn’t guarenttee that I will be saved. It’s all individual.
