For All Those Who Doubt the MP Still Supports Communism

[Helen]

Oh yes, almost forgot.

One saint (can't remember which one - when I find out will tell you), said: "If I had to choose between Christ and the Truth, I would choose Christ."

It seems to me that this is our Christian calling - to love Christ more than anything. And it follows that if you love Christ and you have the love of Christ in you, quite naturally you will also "love your neighbor as yourself" as Christ loved us, and not leave anything to yourself (with the exception of giving up Christ) that you could sacrifice for the good of your neighbor. Lastly, Christ says: "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."John 15:13 and "by this shall men know that you are My disciples if you have love one to another."

An example of a saint fighting for authorities that were not in line with their beliefs, is St. Evstratios. St. Evstratios, together with his sons, fought for a pagan emperor on the emperor's request, . The emperor, knowing that Evstratios was a Christian, nethertheless requested St.Evstratios to fight in the war as St.Evstratios was an excellent general who had in the past only brought success to all wars he had fought in. Even after a successful battle, St.Evstratios and his family still suffered martyrdom at the hands of this emperor (or his successor).

I personally don't think that anyone seeing such suffering around them, as happens in wars, could refrain from helping and fighting for the suffering in every possible way. I don't think you would either, drewmeister.

[drewmeister2]

Drewmeister, you still didn't answer one of my questions: Were did you read or hear that the Catacombniks didn't fight in the war?

Sorry about that. I maybe shouldn't have made such a sweeping statement, but I am sure many did not fight in the war, for a few reasons. A. I am not real likely to want to defend a government who just burned down the Church and killed my priest a few days ago, regardless of the suffering I am experiencing. We should be willing to suffer anything for the Truth, and as I know you agree, burning down Churches and killing people is not the Truth. B. What would be the point, I go fight to keep myself from being killed by Nazis only to come back after the war to be killed by Soviets (or at least have my life turned into a living hell by them, and even if I am not alive, my family would suffer that for being Catacombniks). So it doesn't logically make sense. Either way, you are going to be killed (unless you submit to the MP) so you might as well not fight for the atheist Stalin and die for the fullness of the Faith. Granted some Catacombniks may have fought in the war as they may have not understood everything going on at the time, but that doesnt mean they didn't regret it later after they were hauled off to the Gulags for not supporting the MP.

Anyways, I think it is pointless to keep arguing this. We obviously have different viewpoints on the MP and on how we should react if in this situation. I think you are a good person, but that we don't need to debate this endlessly .

[scwaterfowl]

Drew,
You have posted a "foto" and some commentary.
Though my father's family never had the chance to become 'Americans' and my mother's family have been here since the first load of dirt, I reckon I have a few comments.
One of the first things I ever learned was that one should believe none of what he hears and only half of what he sees. Your fotos need to be in my compost.
Second; like Prussian history, everyone was a Nazi in the late 30's/early 40's. Who cares?? While I admire those who would not join the Communist party and chose to live/worship underground, they are no more righteous than those who 'joined' the party and were also Orthodox. If Nazi-ism/Communism were the only games in town, who am I to say what anyone should do??
It is 2007!!! I don't give a mouse's butt who was or wasn't a Communist or a Nazi!! No one that is able to feed themselves would!!! I don't even care if some bishops or priests personally signed the death warrants. Grow up and get over it!!! It is done and ROCOR and the Moscow Partriarch are one. Even those; or rather, the one bishop who "put on" like he was against this God pleasing re-unification has joined the winning team. All that are left are schismatics and unstable wanna-bees.
This is more propaganda/anti-MP BS. Its done, settled, and over. If you don't like it, no one is begging you to stay. Leave and do your own thing.
sc

[Pravoslavnik]

"I don't even care if some bishops or priests personally signed the death warrants." ?????!!!!

Code: Select all

   Such an incredible statement says a great deal about the kind of Satanically deluded people in America who have gone along with the takeover of the former ROCOR by the KGB Church during the past year.  Perhaps SCWaterfowl also collects Nazi memorabilia and KKK costumes for use in his ROCOR-Laurus parish.  Nothing like being on the "winning team," eh?

[jacqueline]

At first, people stop caring, then they forget, and then they let it repeat.

[Sean]

"I don't even care if some bishops or priests personally signed the death warrants." ?????!!!!

Code: Select all

   Such an incredible statement says a great deal about the kind of Satanically deluded people in America who have gone along with the takeover of the former ROCOR by the KGB Church during the past year.  Perhaps SCWaterfowl also collects Nazi memorabilia and KKK costumes for use in his ROCOR-Laurus parish.  Nothing like being on the "winning team," eh?[/quote]

Hear! Hear!
I wish these World Orthodox apostates would stop trolling around on this True Orthodox forum. If your graceless souls think we're schismatics, then stay off of our sites and post on your own ecumenist forums!

True Orthodoxy and World Orthodoxy are two different religions, with two mutually exclusive world views.

[Helen]

Thanks Scaterfowl for you typically "intellegent" contribution.