Bishop Photii - On the current situation of ROCOR

[Helen]

http://sobor2006.livejournal.com/296492.html#cutid1

[Climacus]

Dear brothers and sisters,

I am an evangelical, on the cusp of entering the Orthodox church as a catechumen. Until now, I have been under the impression that Orthodoxy represented a stable and united Church much in contrast with the endless factionalism that so characterizes Protestantism.

But having come to this cafe, and having read articles such as the one linked in this thread, I have been given the impression that Orthodoxy is just as fractured as Protestantism, with competing Orthodox denominations (or synods, or episcopal lineages) claiming to be the 'True Church' and denoucing all others. I am very confused about this, and more than a little saddened.

To put the matter more succinctly, I live in Boston, near ROCOR (including Western Rite), OCA, Greek and Antiochian churches. I had assumed it was a matter of relative indifference between choosing which to join as all are fully Orthodox. But would the people here say that I should avoid them all because they are all 'corrupt'?

Please help!

In Him,
Climacus

[drewmeister2]

Dear brothers and sisters,

I am an evangelical, on the cusp of entering the Orthodox church as a catechumen. Until now, I have been under the impression that Orthodoxy represented a stable and united Church much in contrast with the endless factionalism that so characterizes Protestantism.

But having come to this cafe, and having read articles such as the one linked in this thread, I have been given the impression that Orthodoxy is just as fractured as Protestantism, with competing Orthodox denominations (or synods, or episcopal lineages) claiming to be the 'True Church' and denoucing all others. I am very confused about this, and more than a little saddened.

Please help!

In Him,
Climacus

I agree these divisions in Orthodoxy are saddening, but I think the difference between Protestant divisions and Orthodox ones are that even though we may be divided "politically" (in that bishops of other Synods dont always pray with each other or whatever), we are still united in a common Orthodox faith. Granted, there are those who claim to be True Orthodox but yet are little more than deceivers, but we must use our consciences to decide who these people are and ask for God's guidance to help lead us to those who are truly Orthodox.

[Helen]

Dear Climacus,

I sincerely apologise that my post has been a cause of temptation to you.

Most spiritual authorities will tell you though, not to rely on the internet (in particular forums) to give you any advice concerning your salvation. Although it's helpful sometimes to hear of other people's experiences, that's just about as far as you can take it. The fathers of the Church teach that when we seek guidance concerning our spiritual life (or otherwise), that we have prayer, the prayers of the Church, the prayers and guidance of a spiritual guide, and variety of patristic Orthodox literature to refer to for help. This is the most sure way shown to us by the fathers and saints of the church.If someone is truly seeking God's will and praying for God to show him the way, without a doubt God will surely show them the way they need to walk in their life through these means.

I've also heard priests say that there are so many temptations among the Orthodox because the devil works even harder to tempt the Orthodox since he knows that it is the correct faith and a sure means of attaining the Kingdom of Heaven, if we travel the path according to God's Will.

[Pravoslavnik]

Climacus,

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  I sympathize with your predicament.  As a former Protestant who entered the Orthodox Church through a Western Rite Antiochian parish for five years, then moved to the ROCOR about ten years ago, I can tell you that I, also, have struggled to understand the many divisions that characterize Christian history.  Recall that the multifaceted divisions of Protestantism have occurred in a mere 500 years of Protestant history, and that the Orthodox Church is 2,000 years old, encompassing diverse nations and cultures.

    Rather than presenting you with my own dogmatic opinions about which branch of the Church to attend, I will mention a few basic historical facts about the current Orthodox administrations.  The central, unifying aspects of Orthodoxy are the Apostolic succession of the bishops--dating back to Pentecost and the Holy Apostles--and the canons of the Church, as defined by the Ecumenical Councils.  These Councils date back to the reign of the Emperor Constantine, who convoked the First Ecumenical Council at Nicea (near Constantinople) in 324 A.D.  From this First Council came the central Nicean Creed of the Holy Church--chanted in all Orthodox liturgies throughout history, (and, with a few modifications, in the Roman Catholic Church.)

      The various administrations of the Orthodox Churches originated in geographic centers of the Church, including the Five Great Patriarchates of the original Church--Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria (Egypt), Rome, and Constantinople.  A number of Church administrations were granted "Autocephaly" by the Church over the years, usually on the basis of geography and nationality--e.g., Cyprus, Bulgaria, Serbia, Romania, Russia (which became the Imperial defender of the faith after the fall of Constantinople to the Tuks in 1453.)

      The two major schisms during the first thousand years of Orthodox Church history were 1) The monophysite schism following the Council of Chalcedon in 451 A.D.--when the Coptic (Egyptian), part of the Syrian, and Armenian Churches split with the other Orthodox Patriarchates--and 2) the "Great Schism" of 1054 A.D., when the Patriarch of Rome (Pope) split with the other Orthodox Patriarchates, and established the modern "monarchical" Papacy and College of Cardinals.

    Modern divisions within the Orthodox Church mainly have to do with; 1) The fall of Imperial "Holy" Russia to the Bolsheviks in 1917, and 2) The adoption of the Western Gregorian "New" Calendar by many jurisdicitions in the twentieth century. 

    Orthodox hierarchs and clergy throughout the world have disagreed about whether the "Moscow Patriarchate" of the Soviet  Union is a legitimate Church administration.  Most of the major Orthodox Churches in America are now in communion with Moscow--the Greeks, Antiochians, OCA, (which was granted autocephly by Moscow in 1970) and even the ROCOR-Laurus, which joined with Moscow on May 17, 2007.  Most of these churches, with the exception of the ROCOR-Laurus, have also adopted the New Calendar.

      There are a number of small, traditional Orthodox Church administrations around the world who are not in communion with Moscow, and have not adopted the New Calendar.  Many of the people who post on this site, including me, are involved in one of these traditional Orthodox Churches.  Some are Greek Old Calendarists, and some are Russian.

[GOCPriestMark]

Very nice summary Pravoslavnik, thanks.

[Evfimy]

When I came to Orthodoxy, I thought it was one united Church also. I am very disappointed on what I have seen over the last 15 years. I can't even go to church because all I have around me is Serbs, GOA and Moscow. There is no true Church within a 200 mile radious of where I live. This has almost caused me to leave Orthodoxy altogether in the past. I was very tempted to join Catholicism, but found they have even worse problems. I'm tired of people saying "they have Grace, but they don't." "They are uncannonical but they aren't" Who are we to say who has Grace? What is our authority? This old Calendarism/traditional stance is pushing me right out of Orthodoxy altogether. I can't even go to church because everyones a "heretic." I once looked-up to ROCOR, but now they too have fallen away. Are things so bad today that only a small handful of some Greek or Russian traditionalists somewhere hidden in the world, comprise the true Church of Christ? If this is the case, then we are truly in the very last days. All around me is heresy and apostasy. I stand completely alone within a several hundred mile radius. This is very difficult.