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Sean
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Faith: Old Calendar Greek Orthodox
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Post by Sean »

This is an excellent response to Kyprianite ecclesiology, as it is rooted in the Fathers.

On the basis of having studied the
ecclesiological teachings of Metropolitan Cyprian,
which are set forth in the book ECCLESIOLOGICAL THESIS
OR THE EXPOSITION OF THE DOCTRINE OF THE CHURCH FOR
THE ORTHODOX RESISTING THE HERESY OF ECUMENISM (1993),
Metropolitan Cyprian's report at the 6th Orthodox
Conference THE HERESY OF ECUMENISM AND THE PATRISTIC
POSITION OF THE ORTHODOX (1998), and also a host of
publications and declarations of other hierarchs of
the Synod of the Resistors, we have arrived at the
following conclusions:

1) Metropolitan Cyprian and his Synod, while
recognizing ecumenist World Orthodoxy to be heretical,
nevertheless considers it to be a part of the Church
of Christ, thus CONTRADICTING THE TEACHING AND
TRADITION OF THE CHURCH, which clearly bears witness
in Conciliar decrees and the writings of the Holy
Fathers to the effect that HERETICS ARE FALLEN AWAY
FROM THE CHURCH
.

2)...In regard to ecumenist-heretics, he writes,
"Persons in error concerning the correct understanding
of the faith---and thereby sinning, but not yet judged
by an ecclesiastical court---are ailing members of the
Church (ECCLESIOLOGICAL THESIS, Chapters 1,4, pp.
2,7). Calling for a walling-off from these ailing
members, Metropolitan Cyprian nonetheless considers
them to be WITHIN THE CHURCH. However, to permit
membership in the Church OUTSIDE AN ORTHODOX
CONFESSION OF FAITH is by no means possible;
hence,
those "ailing in the faith" CANNOT BE MEMBERS OF THE
CHURCH, which is also confirmed by the teachings of
the Holy Fathers. "Without a doubt," says the
venerable John Cassian the Roman, "he who does not
confess the faith of the Church is OUTSIDE THE
CHURCH."
The same is confirmed also by Patriarch
Jeremias II of Constantinople: "Members of the Church
of Christ are wholly devoted to the truth, and those
who are not wholly devoted to the truth ARE NOT
MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH OF CHRIST."
And St Cyprian of
Carthage teaches: "Just as the devil is not Christ,
although he deceives in His Name, so also such a one
cannnot be acounted a Christian who does not abide in
the truth of His Gospel and faith."
IN AGREEMENT WITH
ALL THE FATHERS, the great hierarch Gregory the
Theologian, in his SECOND EPISTLE AGAINST
APOLLINARIUS,
also teaches: "Avoid those holding to another doctrine
and consider them ALIEN TO GOD AND TO THE UNIVERSAL
CHURCH."
The EPISTLE OF THE EASTERN PATRIARCHS
CONCERNING THE ORTHODOX FAITH states: "We believe that
all amongst us are members of the catholic Church,
even the faithful themselves, i.e., those who
unconditionally confess the pure faith of Christ the
Saviour."
And Saint Gregory Palamas also explains:
"Those who are of the Church of Christ, the same are
of the truth; and THOSE WHO ARE NOT OF THE TRUTH, THE
SAME ARE ALSO NOT OF THE CHURCH OF CHRIST."

Metropolitan Cyprian declares in his thesis that
"the Orthodox have become divided into two parts:
those who are ailing in the faith and those who are
healthy..." (Chapter 3, p. 4), but then he immediately
goes on to speak of "restoring to Orthodoxy" those
ailing in the faith (Chapter 3, p. 5), whereby he
clearly falls into a doctrinal contradiction, for how
is it possible "to receive into Orthodoxy" those who
already are Orthodox?!

Metropolitan Cyprian makes a statement concerning
the division of the Church by reason of ecumenism, by
drawing an analogy between the present state of the
Church and Her state during the time of the
iconoclastic heresy (8th and 9th centuries). In his
ecclesiology, he attempts to compare the present-day
new calendarists and ecumenists with the iconoclasts,
whom the Fathers of the Seventh Ecumenical Council
UNITED TO THE CHURCH THROUGH REPENTANCE AND THE
RENOUNCING OF THE HERESY...He reaches a TOTALLY
UNFOUNDED CONCLUSION, that the iconoclasts, prior to
their having been judged by the Council, were not yet
heretics as such, and that their mysteries were
therefore recognized as being valid. However,
concerning the iconoclasts who were joined to
Orthodoxy, neither did the Ecumenical Council consider
them as having belonged previously to the Church, nor
did they themselves make any pretence as to their
comprising Her. Here are the testimonies of the
(iconoclasts who joined the Orthodox Church)...:Basil,
Bishop of Ancyra: "To the extent of my ability, I
investigated the question of icons, and with complete
conviction turned to the Holy Catholic Church."
Theodore, Bishop of Myra in Lycia: "...I pray God and
your holiness to join me, a sinner, to the Holy
Catholic Church, as well."
John, the most
God-pleasing Locum Tenens of the Apostolic Throne in
the East, said: "Heresy separates every man from the
Church."
The holy Council stated "That is obvious"
(not to many on this list). But Metropolitan Cyprian
in his ecclesiology
changes the terminology: (he says): "They were
received into Orthodoxy," thereby inferring AN
UNTHINKABLE DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE CHURCH AND
ORTHODOXY, which is IMPOSSIBLE. The Church, as the
Body of Christ, CANNOT BE DIVIDED. Such a phenomenon
is ontologically impossible, inasmuch as the Lord
Jesus Christ cannot have several bodies...In the
Church there can be no division; there can only be a
falling away from Her...CONTRADICTING THE DECREES OF
THE CHURCH,
Metropolitan Cyprian declares that "the new
calendarists have not yet been condemned, to this day"
and that he recognizes "their Mysteries" to be
"valid" (Chapter 3, p. 5). But Local Councils of the
Church of Constantinople condemned the Gregorian
Paschalion and the
Gregorian menologion: in 1583, in 1587, and in 1593,
with the Eastern Patriarchs taking part.
For example,
the 1593 Conciliar definition of the Church states:
"Whosoever does not follow the customs of the church,
but desires to follow the Gregorian menologion and
paschalion is subject to anathema, to being
excommunciated from the Church and from the entire
assembly of the faithful."
Patriarch Cyrill's 1756
Encyclical declares that "he who accepts the Gregorian
menologion will be separated from God."

(Metropolitan Cyprian is hoping for a
"unification council" that will unite these "separated
Orthodox"[!] ) But HERETICS DO NOT BELONG TO THE
CHURCH and can return into the bosom of the Church of
Christ ONLY through being united to Her.
Metropolitan
Cyprian sets forth A FALSE THEORY of uniting those of
unlike mind, at the same time making the very
convening of said Council dependent upon this
unnatural union. In this fashion, Metropolitan
Cyrian's doctrine,
being the fundamental position of the Synod of
resistors, CONTRADICTS THE TRADITIONS OF THE CHURCH.
He declares that he is not in communion with heretical
ecumenist churches; meanwhile, however, he and his
Synod fail to sever themselves from these churches
spiritually, considering themselves to be the "healthy
part" of the one Church, at the same time as the
heretical ecumenists and new calendarist churches are
the "ailing part." Thus, Metropolitan Cyprian's
synod, despite the absence of communion in the
mysteries, finds itself DE FACTO, in a total
"healthy-ailing" UNION WITH HERETICAL WORLD ORTHODOXY.
This "Orthodox" CRYPTO-ECUMENISM, so to speak, even as
open ecumenism, FALLS UNDER THE ANATHEMA AGAINST THE
HERESY OF ECUMENISM, which was proclaimed by the ROCOR
Synod of Bishops under the presidency of the third
First Hierarch of the Church Abroad, Metropolitan
Philaret. This anathema was subsequently confirmed by
the ROCOR Sobor of Bishops in 1998....

Metropolitan Vitaly
Archbishop Varnana
Bishop Seegei
Bishop Vladimir
Bishop Varforlomei
Protopresbyter Victor Melehov
Archpriest Sergei Petrov
Archpriest Joseph Sunderland
Archpriest Sypridon Schneider
Priest Anatoly Trepatschko
Priest Andrew Kencis
Priest Nikita Orlov
Hieromonk Damien
Priest Mikhail Marcinowski
Priest Yevgenii Santalov
Abbess Eugenia
Deacon Mark Smith

Holy Transfiguration Skete
Mansonville, Canada

December 16, 2001

Some people prefer cupcakes. I, for one, care less for them...

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Benjamin W. C. Waterhouse
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Location: Isle of Wight England

Post by Benjamin W. C. Waterhouse »

And I would respectfully disagree with the above statement....

In Him
SB

"The Synod of Metropolitan Cyprian adheres wholly to the exact same ecclesiological and dogmatic principles as our Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia,"

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Sean
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Faith: Old Calendar Greek Orthodox
Jurisdiction: HOTCA

Post by Sean »

benjaminw1 wrote:

And I would respectfully disagree with the above statement....

In Him
SB

And I respect the fact that you disagree. However, you are not in agreement with the Patristic consensus (ie. the teachings of the Orthodox Church) that heretics are outside of the Church.

Some people prefer cupcakes. I, for one, care less for them...

buzuxi
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Post by buzuxi »

HAHAH You guys are too funny. What about the many former new calendarists that join the Cyprianite synod? Isnt that then a stepping stone towards anti-ecumenism? And the Cyprinaites are gaining members who were formerly new calendarists at a much faster rate than the Matthewites and Chrysostomos Synod.

The OP was about a bishop who left the Cyprianites and joined the more stricter ecclesiology of the GOC, finally abandoning them. So how is it viewed that Cyprianites are stepping stones towards "WORLD ORTHODOXY"?
How quickly we forget that almost 10 years ago the largest "traditional Orthodox" church in America under the GOC left and joined the EP. That same GOC bishop, after being recieved into the E.P. (GOA) later said that under the GOC he was only a layman in a cassock. He went on to ridicule the "old calendarists"yet he was one for decades!. How quickly we forget what transpired at St Irene Chrysovalandou Cathedral in Astoria, NY. Have you ever heard of such soap opera drama coming from the Cyprianites? I think not.

Chrysostomos GOC synod views both the matthewites and the cyprianites as schismatics of their own Church not heretics and wishes they rejoin.

But speaking of heretics, yes they are outside the church, unfortunately those "traditionalists" reared in America and consider themselves "gurus" on ecumenism, need to read St Basil who taught of 3 categories:

  1. schismatics
  2. heretics
  3. unlawful assemblies

Interesting how certain so called "traditonalist" Orthodox churches fall under the realm of unlawful assemblies.

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drewmeister2
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Post by drewmeister2 »

I find it even more interesting that you make this post against the True Orthodox on the Sunday of Orthodoxy, in which the Church conquers all heresies.

Orthodoxia i Thanatos

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Anastasios
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Post by Anastasios »

buzuxi wrote:

HAHAH You guys are too funny. What about the many former new calendarists that join the Cyprianite synod? Isnt that then a stepping stone towards anti-ecumenism? And the Cyprinaites are gaining members who were formerly new calendarists at a much faster rate than the Matthewites and Chrysostomos Synod.

I am not against the Cyprianites in the way the above posters are (I disagree with them but generally am impressed with what they publish, etc). However, the above is simply untrue. The Cyprianites are not growing at a much faster rate.

The OP was about a bishop who left the Cyprianites and joined the more stricter ecclesiology of the GOC, finally abandoning them. So how is it viewed that Cyprianites are stepping stones towards "WORLD ORTHODOXY"?

I agree with you here.

How quickly we forget that almost 10 years ago the largest "traditional Orthodox" church in America under the GOC left and joined the EP.

He was hardly the largest. He claimed 30,000 but in reality had no more than Met Petros did. HOCNA is the biggest Old Calendar Church in America.

That same GOC bishop, after being recieved into the E.P. (GOA) later said that under the GOC he was only a layman in a cassock. He went on to ridicule the "old calendarists"yet he was one for decades!. How quickly we forget what transpired at St Irene Chrysovalandou Cathedral in Astoria, NY.

What's your point? There are strange people in every group. He's gone now, and things have become remarkably stable in our Synod since he left. Thanks be to God.

Have you ever heard of such soap opera drama coming from the Cyprianites? I think not.

Yeah, actually you could point to several things: Evloghios of Milan was a member of that synod for awhile, their bishop Niphon in Africa who was deposed, Antonio di Rosso, etc. I don't point this out to attack them--I actually get along well with some members of their Synod and respect their anti-ecumenical work tremendously (while disagreeing with their ecclesiology)--I just feel your innaccurate post must be pointed out.

But speaking of heretics, yes they are outside the church, unfortunately those "traditionalists" reared in America and consider themselves "gurus" on ecumenism, need to read St Basil who taught of 3 categories:

  1. schismatics
  2. heretics
  3. unlawful assemblies

Interesting how certain so called "traditonalist" Orthodox churches fall under the realm of unlawful assemblies.

Sorry, that doesn't make any sense at all.

buzuxi
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Post by buzuxi »

Dear Anastasios,

When i meant largest church about the astoria cathefral, i meant largest individual parish. My post was intended for those that see some sort of link as a stepping stone between the Cyprianites and those who join new calendarist churches. There is none.
Both the Matthewites and Cyprianites severed with the GOC essentially over the same issue. Both thought it better to sever ties than allow for a difference of opinion to exist on the issue of "grace" of new calerndarists.

The differences between schismatics and heretics are well defined in the writings of the Fathers.
As far as unlawful assemblies (which harms the traditionalist movement) ,that come to mind is bishop gregory (of who knows which synod he belongs to this week) & HOCNA (sexual immoral monastery and atleast one monk i know which is now converting to lutheranism after spending time there)

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