Current objections refuted.

[scwaterfowl]

Pravoslavnik,
Again, you (as well as all the others that frequent this site) have affirmed my position. No, they won't say it--or rather, write it--the Russian Church has no way in Hell of reconciling itself to the Church Abroad. Every person in Russia that says they are Christian--except of course, those in the Catacomb Churches--are nothing more than heathen wretches. We're stupid... Everyone knows that the problem with being a Russian Church is that you don't know who is KGB; the problem with being ROCOR and/or Catacomb is that you don't know who is KGB...
You are so FOS; I can't stop laughing. (If you don't know what FOS means, ask an American)
So...
Which Church gains the most with KGB members???????
DUH!!!!?????

[Benjamin W. C. Waterhouse]

Pravoslavnik,
Again, you (as well as all the others that frequent this site) have affirmed my position. No, they won't say it--or rather, write it--the Russian Church has no way in Hell of reconciling itself to the Church Abroad. Every person in Russia that says they are Christian--except of course, those in the Catacomb Churches--are nothing more than heathen wretches. We're stupid... Everyone knows that the problem with being a Russian Church is that you don't know who is KGB; the problem with being ROCOR and/or Catacomb is that you don't know who is KGB...
You are so FOS; I can't stop laughing. (If you don't know what FOS means, ask an American)
So...
Which Church gains the most with KGB members???????
DUH!!!!?????

My dear fellow(ess?) - Resorting to abuse tends to mean you are losing the argument...

In Him
SB

[ioannis]

"Current objections refuted"

Really?

I give you: "Current objections proven: Part 3.....million"

http://euphrosynoscafe.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7619

[Pravoslavnik]

Those with seminary educations from Jordanville are overwhelmingly for this union.

Dear PTHALA,

Code: Select all

      As I have been learning more about the secret history of ROCOR Metropolitan Laurus Skurla and the Moscow Patriarchate in recent weeks, I have been wondering whether the ROCOR Seminary at Jordanville has, in fact, become a distrubingly racist (and hence, heretical) institution under the watch of Metropolitan Laurus.  I raise this issue as a rather naive, longstanding member and supporter of the ROCOR.  Until recently, I have imagined that our ROCOR heirarchs practically walked on water, somewhat like St. John of San Francisco or Blessed Metropolitan Philaret, (or Archbishop Anthony of San Francisico, of blessed memory.) 
      Case in point.  The priest at our parish came to us from Jordanville in 2000.  He has clearly proven himself to be a Russian nationalist, and rather blatantly anti-American.  During his first year at our parish, he refused to pray for any non-Russian people (by patronymic) at our St. Pantelemon's day service, insisting that our American deacon pray for the Americans.  He even stopped giving sermons in English for a time, despite the fact that our parish had been sustained for over 15 years primarily by American converts.
   I found out this week that a former American parishioner--whose Russian husband had divorced her about five years ago in order to marry a Russian woman--asked our priest if he would baptize her infant son from her new marriage.  She apparently told him that she had been attending a Protestant Church after the divorce, and he told her that she should have her son baptized in the Protestant Church!  I was rather astounded to hear about this, as were a number of American parishioners at our ROCOR parish.  What ever happened to the "good Shepherds," who seek the lost sheep, and rejoice when finding it?  I seriously doubt that they graduated from a seminary run by Metropolitan Laurus Skurla.  Does anyone have any inside information about what has been happening at Jordanville under Laurus' tenure?

[spiridon]

---

There have been non-Russians in jordanville, and even today there are non russians at HTM jordanville. some Russians just simply cant pronounce the English and would rather have an english speaker properly pronounce the names ,rather then have them chopped up , I am including the life of a Latino at HTM, Fr.Averky Moreno of Eternal memory..and remember to Trust in God foremost and;
"See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world, rather than on Christ" (Colossians 2:8).

On May 29 / June 11, 2004 one of the brethren of our monastery, Hieromonk Averkii (Moreno), died. He was born on May 2, 1945 in the state of Idaho, and was one of those Americans who, having crossed the waves of the youthful searches of the nineteen sixties, were brought to the salvific shore of Orthodoxy. When Father Averkii was baptized in San Francisco, the future Abbot Herman (Podmoshenskii) and Hieromonk Seraphim (Rose, +1982) were singing in the choir. The story of how Father Averkii converted to Orthodoxy is astonishing. He was studying at a Catholic Seminary, and one of the professors, a Uniate, who was going away on holiday, left an Orthodox icon in the charge of Father Averkii. Father Averkii, blessed with a keen artistic sense, was astounded by the beauty of the Orthodox iconography. He became interested, so he borrowed records of Russian church hymns from the Seminary library… and once again he experienced an upheaval. That is when a thought crossed his mind, “If the Orthodox paint such wonderful icons and sing with such deep feeling, it means they are very special people, and their Christianity is special.”
How can we not recall at this point the way the people of Old Russia converted to Orthodoxy through the contemplation of church beauty? The beauty of Christianity that saves the world continues to draw towards Christ the souls that are searching. Having found Orthodoxy through beauty, Father Averkii zealously served beauty: he kept on ordering numerous icons from different iconographers, thus glorifying the Savior, the Theotokos, Angels, and Saints. Incidentally, among the icons that were painted by his order, there is an image of the Holy Theotokos “The Helper of Sinners.” It probably was not by chance that Father Averkii was granted to end his earthly path on the feast day of that icon… How deeply do we feel the words of the prayer addressed to “The Helper of Sinners” when we think of the death of our brother, “All despair is made speechless now, and fear disappears; sinners find comfort in the sorrow of their hearts and are brightly lightened by Heavenly love. For today the Mother of God stretches out Her saving hand to us, and from Her Most Pure image She addresses us saying, ‘I am the Helper of sinners before My Son, Who hast agreed to always heed Me when I pray for them.” Father Averkii really enjoyed giving people presents, and he used to get as much pleasure as a child from this act of giving. And that is the kind of gift he received from the Mother of God, the Helper of sinners.
Hieromonk Averkii not only converted to Orthodoxy, he entered with his whole life into Russian Orthodoxy, having chosen the Russian Church Abroad as his parent. Just like Father Seraphim (Rose), he learned the Russian language and became well acquainted with the Russian culture. Father Averkii recalled that in the past when he was invited to the houses of Russian ?migr?s, in addition to partaking of the traditional generous meal, the hosts and guests recited poems by Pushkin, Lermontov, and Esenin; they played the guitar, the piano, the accordion, the balalaika, and held serious discussions.
At the same time Father Averkii was very zealous about the Orthodox mission among Americans. He enjoyed serving Molebens, Panikhidas, and Divine Liturgy in English. Owing to the efforts of Father Averkii, his mother converted to Orthodoxy before she died.
We should mention that Father Averkii was known for his rather stern character, and that he was not always even-tempered in his dealings with people. Nonetheless, the Lord granted him to have a Christian death, blameless and peaceful. When he was preparing to die, he asked forgiveness of everyone, confessed his sins, and communed. During the last days of his life around twenty people daily visited the hospital ward where he lay. Father Averkii was conscious almost till the very end. There were no signs of the agony of death; he was concentrating on the passage to the new life. We want to believe that the Savior received the soul of Hieromonk Averkii into the dwellings of eternal beauty!

---

And finally, a few finishing touches to the portrait of His Eminence, the Abbot of the Holy Trinity Monastery, Metropolitan Laurus…
It is not easy to find words to describe how much our dear Metropolitan Laurus means to the brethren of Jordanville. He serves as a good example in everything he does: in the way he serves, in his relationship with his neighbors, as well as in his fervent love for Russia. Despite the fact that his health worsened in the last few years, His Grace Laurus spends all his time, from early morning till late evening, either in church or fulfilling his obediences in his office and in the Seminary. His Grace is especially particular with his correspondence. He answers almost every single letter, trying to bring comfort and encouragement in a few lines, which all of his numerous correspondents in Russia and all around the world appreciate.
His Grace Laurus was born on January 1, 1928 in Carpathian Russia, in the village of Ladomirovo. He was given the name of Basil in the Holy Mystery of Baptism, which was officiated by Archbishop Vitalii (Maximenko), who was then already an Archimandrite. Later on, already in America, the same Archbishop Vitalii tonsured the future Metropolitan Laurus a Monk. Archbishop Vitalii in general watched over and instructed Basil. He even predicted that the latter would continue his missionary printing work.
According to the reminiscences of His Grace Seraphim (Ivanov), the young Basil began assisting in the Altar of the monastery church on feast days when he was five or six years of age. And when he was eight or nine he came to His Grace Seraphim, who was then the Abbot of the Brotherhood of St. Job in Ladomirovo, and asked to be admitted as a Monk. “I smiled,” recalls His Grace Seraphim, “patted him on the head and said that it was good that he wanted to dedicate himself to the service of God from a young age, but that it was necessary to get his father’s permission for it.” His father soon allowed Basil to become a Monk, and he joined the brethren of the holy monastery of St. Job of Pochaev in the Carpathian Mountains when he was eleven years old. Instinctively, we recall the life of the Patron Saint of the monastery himself who joined the monastery when he was twelve years of age.
When Metropolitan Anastasii (Gribanovskii) visited the monastery, he told the young Novice Basil who had come up to him for a blessing, “God will bless you. You will become a Shepherd.”
The historian of Jordanville, Nicholas Dimitrievich Talberg, who deeply loved Father Laurus, expressed a prophetic wish that the latter should become Metropolitan, the First Hierarch of the Russian Church Abroad.
By the Grace of God, the prophesies of Archbishop Vitalii, Metropolitan Anastasii, and N. D. Talberg came true to their fullest extent.

in Christ,
spiridon

[jacqueline]

Those with seminary educations from Jordanville are overwhelmingly for this union.

Until recently, I have imagined that our ROCOR heirarchs practically walked on water, somewhat like St. John of San Francisco or Blessed Metropolitan Philaret, (or Archbishop Anthony of San Francisico, of blessed memory.)

Of the ones you mentioned above, I was only blessed to have known Vladika Anthony and he radiated so much joy and love! What you say is true... The ROCOR heirarchs are not the same these days.

[Pravoslavnik]

Dear Spiridon,

Code: Select all

   I appreciate your comments, and agree that the beauty and holiness of the Russian Orthodox Church has the power to draw people into the fold.  I have experienced this in my own life during the past decade in the ROCOR, and was drawn to Russian culture--literature, music, and art--for at least 30 years prior to that.  It is also helpful to hear more about the life of Metropolitan Laurus.  On the other hand, there is a lot of material appearing on the internet of late about his possible long-term involvement with the MP and/or KGB.  Are these allegations true?  We must, surely, seek the truth about these issues, for, as the Apostle Paul wrote, "What has righteousness to do with unrighteousness?"
   Three facts.  Our ROCOR parish priest, a graduate of Jordanville, is quite fluent in both English and Russian, and has been throughout his life.  Therefore, his refusal to read the American parishioners' names in our St. Pantelmon's day prayer service cannot be attributed to language problems, as you suggest.  Secondly, I have just learned that this same priest directly admitted to a parishioner this week that the KGB was active at Jordanville when our priest was a seminarian there several years ago!  What do you make of this?  In my experience over the years, I have observed that the culture and praxis of any institution --business, government agency, school, etc.--almost always comes from the "top" down.  How long has Metropolitan Laurus been in charge of the Jordanville seminary?   Does Laurus know that the KGB has been active in his seminary for many years, as our priest recently attested?  Finally, as I read your post about Metropolitan Vitaly's mentoring of Metrolpolitan Laurus, I kept thinking about the photos from Canada in 2000 which showed Metroplitan Vitaly being physically dragged out of his office and forced into a car by several unidentified plainclothesmen.  Have you seen these photos?  Do you know who these abductors of Metropolitan Vitaly are?  Does Metropolitan Laurus know who they are?

--Pravoslavnik