Official OCA position

[Nektarios14]

I promised that I would write to OCA communications department as to what there official position on Latin Baptism was. It is more than fairly ambiguous, to say the least. Basicly it was something to the effect that we don't know how much grace is in an RC baptism (only that it is imperfect) and that an Orthodox Chrisimation perfects it. He did not say though latin baptisms are graceless, the implication was that they were some sort of semi-gracefilled.

[尼古拉前执事]

Seems like a good place for a OOD quote on the matter.

I don't want to offend you, provoke you, or do any other harm, but for the sake of truth, I want to just say that there are no Mysteries outside the Church. If the Church decides to baptize anyone, no matter what form of "baptism" they had outside the Church, it is Her right to do so.

The danger of over-using economia is that people are mislead into believing their are baptisms outside the Church, however "imperfect" - as if the Grace of God can be imperfect.

I came form the OCA, and I can tell there has not been a single priest or layman who I spoke to who does not beleive there are baptisms outside the Church. This is a MOST heretical belief for which the First Ecumenical Synod recommends the priest or bishop to be deposed!

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

Nektarios,

"Fr." John Matusiak no doubt replied to you. Here is a man who has communed Latins and he's going to tell you they have no Mysteries?! They have his "Mysteries" at least!

[bogoliubtsy]

OOD,

You know for sure that Fr. John has communed Roman Catholics?

On a related note...when I went to the St. Tikhon's annual pilgrimage this year, it was made veryclear to the people at liturgy that only Orthodox Christians may approach the chalice. Fr. Robert Kondratick announced it before the gifts were brought out.

[bogoliubtsy]

Another related reply of Fr. John, posted on the OCA webpage:

Orthodox Christians are not permitted to receive Communion in non-Orthodox communities, including the Roman Catholic. To do so would imply a unity that in fact does not yet exist. Also it implies that we are "united" to the faith community from which we receive the Eucharist.

In brief, while Roman Catholicism sees Orthodoxy as a "sister church", Orthodoxy sees herself as the fullness of the Church, not the "other half" of the Church, as implied in the notion of a "sister church."

[bogoliubtsy]

On the topic of recognition of Roman Catholic baptisms- this is a short response to recent statements made between St. Vlad's folks and Roman Catholics by Fr. George Dragas, a professor at Holy Cross Greek Orthodox School of Theology. I've heard from friends that have taken his classes that he's an amazing professor.

These recommendations will not win the agreement of all Orthodox, and certainly not of those who are Greek-speaking (or Greek-minded), and consequently they are, by their very nature, divisive. My primary reason for coming to such a negative conclusion is that this inquiry into sacramental theology is devoid of any ecclesiological basis and that it onesidedly interprets—or rather, misinterprets—the facts of Orthodox sacramental practice, and particularly vis-à-vis the heterodox at different periods in the history of the Church. These recommendations and conclusions and, indeed, the entire Agreed Statement are the epitome of Western skepticism. Their acceptance by Orthodox theologians signals a deliberate betrayal of Orthodox views and a capitulation to the outlook of Western ecumenism. This is something that we should reject.

[Nektarios14]

You correct OOD that is was Fr. John that I corresponded with.