Father Seraphim Rose on "Traditionalist" groups

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jckstraw72
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Post by jckstraw72 »

Here is the last part of the introduction to his "Russia's Catacomb Saints": "To the future historian of the Russian Church there will indeed be no doubt (in fact, the church history of Lev Regelson already proves it) that the Josephites were correct and the Sergianists were fatally wrong. But the significance of the Catacomb Church does not lie in its 'correctness', it lies in its preservation of the true spirit of Orthodoxy, the spirit of freedom in Christ. Sergianism was not merely 'wrong' in its choice of church policy, it was something far worse: it was a betrayal of Christ based on agreement with the spirit of this world. It is the inevitable result when church policy is guided by earthly logic and not by the mind of Christ."

so Fr. Seraphim agreed that Patriarch Sergius screwed up. This doesnt necessarily equate to gracelessness, especially considering that Fr. Seraphim argued with HOCNA in defense of the MP.

In this Introduction he equates Sergianism with the present day MP.

since Fr. Seraphim has been dead for 24 yrs that is absolutely impossible.

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Post by Anastasios »

Pensees wrote:
GOCTheophan wrote:

Well I agree with you in that at least- that he is far more trustworthy than members of an internet forum. Still he was infected by a general ROCOR fuzziness- the proof of that was that he didnt come out straight and call Met Krapovitsky a heretic even though his writings fell under several Concilar anathemas.

Theophan.

Perhaps Blessed Seraphim understood his place as a monk, in not having the authority to judge a patriarch of the Church. You don't know the difficult choices that religious leaders sometimes make for the survival of the Church in the face of persecution.

Peace.

His place as a monk? No. It is the place and indeed duty of all monks and laymen to rebuke even a patriarch for heresy.

Yes, leaders make tough choices--but we are not talking about sin, we are talking about heresy.

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Post by Pensees »

Anastasios wrote:

It is the place and indeed duty of all monks and laymen to rebuke even a patriarch for heresy.

If I am not mistaken, no servant is greater than his master. Could someone please cite an incident when Father Seraphim doubted the grace and the authority of the Moscow Patriarchate?

Peace.

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Post by GOCTheophan »

Anastasios wrote:

And by the way Theophan--you call the people who put those links up modernists, you call us all modernists. We are one here in America, despite your attempts to classify us into different camps. You should find yourself another "jurisdiction" if you think an entire diocese of your Church is made up of modernists.

Fr Augustine told me not to pray with anyone who holds the heretical Dogma of Redemption, Reader Vladimir has written an excellent critque of it and it was his writings that attracted to me to the GOC. I never said EVERYONE in the GOC in the USA was modernist, or even MOST. Just those who put up that link without a grave warning.

Theophan.

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Anastasios wrote:

So let me get this straight--the other bishops did not separate from Met Anthony in his time--but THEOPHAN opines that he was a heretic. Ok...

St Theophan the New Recluse who is probably after St Maximius the Confessor the greatest Hierarch of all time and certainly of the 20 th century aswell as being the Spiritual Father of Blessed Averky of Jordanville did break from him. Plus things are complicated by the fact though he believed that those who who thought otherwise were in prelest in didnt inisist that everyone accept his maddness. Breaking from Bishops is not something to be done at all lightly.

Theophan.

Last edited by GOCTheophan on Sun 26 November 2006 5:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Anastasios wrote:

How is his teaching on Ancestral Sin heretical? Most people I have talked to from a wide spectrum find his work on Ancestral sin to be monumental. You'll need to provide more than your opinion to back this statement up.

Anastasios

The Canons of the council of Carthage.

  1. All the bishops established in the sacred synod of the Carthaginian Church have decided that whoever says that Adam, the first man, was made mortal, so that, whether he sinned or whether he did not sin, he would die in body, that is he would go out of the body not because of the merit of sin but by reason of the necessity of nature, let him be anathema.
  1. Likewise it has been decided that whoever says that infants fresh from their mothers’ wombs ought not to be baptized, or says that they are indeed baptized unto the remission of sins, but that they draw nothing of the original sin from Adam, which is expiated in the bath of regeneration, whence it follows that in regard to them the form of baptism “unto the remission of sins” is understood as not true, but as false, let him be anathema. Since what the Apostle says: “Through one man sin entered into the world (and through sin death), and so passed into all men, in whom all have sinned” [cf. Rom. 5:12], must not to be understood otherwise than as the Catholic Church spread everywhere has always understood it. For on account of this rule of faith even infants, who in themselves thus far have not been able to commit any sin, are therefore truly baptized unto the remission of sins, so that that which they have contracted from generation may be cleansed in them by regeneration.
  1. Likewise it has been decided that whoever says that the grace of God, by which man is justified through Jesus Christ, our Lord, has power only for the remission of sins which have already been committed, and not also for help, that they be not committed, let him be anathema.

3a. It has been decided likewise that if anyone says that for this reason the Lord said: “In my house there are many mansions” [John 14:2]: that it might be understood that in the kingdom of heaven there will be some middle place or some place anywhere where the blessed infants live who departed from this life without baptism, without which they cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven, which is life eternal, let him be anathema. For when the Lord says: “Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he shall not enter into the kingdom of God” [John 3:5], what Catholic will doubt that he will be a partner of the devil who has not deserved to be a coheir of Christ? For he who lacks the right part will without doubt run into the left [cf. Matt. 25:41,46].

  1. In like manner, whoever says that the same grace of God through Jesus Christ, our Lord, helps us not to sin only for this reason, that through it the understanding of the commands is revealed and opened to us, that we may know what we ought to strive after, what we ought to avoid, but that through this is not also given to us to love and to be able to do that which we know ought to be done, let him be anathema. For since the Apostle says: “Knowledge puffs up, but charity edifies” [I Cor. 8:1], it is very impious for us to believe that for that which puffs up, we have the grace of Christ, and for that which edifies we have not, although each is a gift of God, both to know what we ought to do and to love in order that we may do it, so that while charity edifies, knowledge may not be able to puff us up. Moreover, just as it is written of God: “Who teaches man knowledge” [Ps. 93:10], so also it is written: “Charity is from God” [I John 4:7].
  1. It has likewise been decided that whoever says that the grace of justification is given to us for this reason: that what we are ordered to do through free will, we may be able to accomplish more easily through grace, just as if, even if grace were not given, we could nevertheless fulfil the divine commands without it, though not indeed easily, let him be anathema. For concerning the fruits of His commands the Lord spoke not when He said: “Without me you can accomplish with greater difficulty,” but when He said: “Without me you can do nothing” [John 15:5J.
  1. It has likewise been decided that what St. John the Apostle says: “If we say, that we have not sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us” [I John 1:8], whoever thinks that this ought to be interpreted thus: that he asserts that this ought to be said on account of humility, namely, that we have sin, and not because it is truly so, let him be anathema. For the Apostle continues and adds: “If however we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, who remits our sins and cleanses us from all iniquity” [I John 1:9], wherein it is quite clear, that this is said not only humbly but truly. For the Apostle could have said: “If we say: we have not sin, we extol ourselves, and humility is not in us.” But when he says: “We deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us”, he shows clearly that he who said he had not sin, spoke not the truth but a falsehood.
  1. It has likewise been decided that whoever says that for this reason the saints say in the Lord’s prayer: “Forgive us our debts” [Matt. 6:12], that they say this not for themselves, because that petition is not now necessary for them, but for others who are sinners among their people, and that on this account each one of the saints does not say: “Forgive me my debts”, but, “Forgive us our debts”; so that the just man is understood to seek this for others rather than for himself, let him be anathema. For the Apostle James was holy and just, when he said: “For in many things we all offend” [Jas. 3:2]. For why was “all” (omnes) added, unless that this meaning was proper and in the Psalm where one reads: “Enter not into judgment with thy servant, because no (ne omnes) living person shall be justified in thy sight” [Ps. 142:2]. And in the prayer of wisest Solomon: “There is not a man who has not sinned” [III Kings 8:46]. And in the book of holy Job: “In the hand of every (omnis) man he signs, so that every (omnis) man may know his infirmity” [Job 37:7]. Hence also holy and just Daniel, when he spoke in the plural in his prayer: “We have sinned, we have done evil” [Dan. 9:5, 15], and the rest which he there truly and humbly confesses, lest it should be thought, as certain ones do think, that he said this not about his own sins, but rather about the sins of his people, declared afterwards; “When … I prayed and confessed my sins and the sins of my people” [Dan. 9:20] to the Lord my God; he did not wish to say “our sins,” but he said the sins of his people and his own sins, since as a prophet he foresaw there would be those who would thus misunderstand.
  1. It has likewise been decided that whoever wishes that the words themselves of the Lord’s prayer, where we say: “Forgive us our debts” [Matt. 6:12] be said by the saints so as to be spoken humbly, not truthfully, let him be anathema. For who would tolerate one praying and lying, not to men, but to the Lord himself, who says with his lips that he wishes to be forgiven, and in his heart holds that he does not have debts to be forgiven?
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Anastasios wrote:

I have never heard a critique about him about his teaching on heaven and hell.

CONCLUSION: THE RIVER OF FIRE

Between two thieves Thy Cross did prove

to be a balance of righteousness:

wherefore one of them was dragged down

to hades by the weight of his blasphemy,

whereas the other was lightened of his

transgressions unto the comprehension of

theology; O Christ God, glory to Thee.

Kontakion of the Ninth Hour.

God is called love, and also justice. That is why

The wise man in the Song of Songs says to the pure heart:

Justice has loved thee.

St. John of the Ladder, The Ladder of Divine Ascent, 24.23.

Although the mystery of God's justice has been a source of puzzlement and stumbling to people in all ages, our age has witnessed a more radical and systematic attack on the doctrine than any other. From within the Orthodox Church three writers have been particularly outspoken: the Greek doctor Alexander Kalomiros, the Serbian bishop (of the "Polish Orthodox Church") Lazar Puhalo, and the Byelorussian philosopher and deputy in the Russian parliament Victor Aksyuchits. Each of these writers has focussed on a different manifestation of God's justice: Kalomiros - on the River of Fire and the Last Judgement, Puhalo - on the Particular Judgement of souls after death and the Toll Houses, and Aksyuchits - on the original Fall and Curse of the first-created couple. However, all three writers share certain common assumptions and arguments in their assault on the traditional teaching of the Orthodox Church on Divine justice. Let us therefore, in concluding this study, examine some of these arguments.

The sentimentalists (as we may call these self-proclaimed champions of Divine love) consider the traditional doctrine to be either a Latinist aberration (Kalomiros, Puhalo) or a survival of pre-Christian Jewish thought (Aksyuchits). They consider that it conjures up the image of a vengeful, bloodthirsty God which is incompatible with the God of love and which is directly responsible for the atheism of modern man. They therefore wish to purge Christian theology of all references to Divine "wrath", "propitiation", "satisfaction for sin", and to substitute for them words expressing man's rejection of the love of God. Thus it is not right, they argue, to speak of God punishing sinners or sending them to hell in His righteous wrath. Rather, the damned punish themselves (in their guilty conscience) and are tormented by the fire of Divine love, not wrath.

Like many heretics, the sentimentalists seize on isolated sayings of the Fathers which seem superficially to support their position, and then use them to extract conclusions which the Fathers in question would never have agreed with. Consider, for example, the locus classicus, taken from the writings of St. Basil the Great, for their teaching that the fire of the Last Judgement is the fire of Divine love, not wrath. St. Basil is interpreting the verse from the Psalms: "The voice of the Lord divideth the flame of fire" (28.7): "Although fire seems to human intelligence to be incapable of being cut or divided, in order that, since there are two capacities in fire, the burning and the illuminating, the fierce and punitive part of the fire may wait for those who deserve to burn, while its illuminating and radiant part may be allotted for the enjoyment of those who are rejoicing. Therefore, the voice of the Lord divideth the fire and allots it, so that the fire of punishment is irksome, but the light of the state of rest remains incapable of burning."

Relying on this passage, in which St. Basil indicates that the same fire which will illumine the blessed will burn the damned at the Last Judgement, the sentimentalists construct the following false syllogism: "God is love. The river of fire is God Himself, His Divine energies. Therefore the river of fire is the fire of God's love. Therefore it is not the fire of His wrath or retributive punishment." But that St. Basil himself would not have drawn this last conclusion is proved by the fact that he calls the river of fire, which in relation to the blessed is felt as light and love, precisely "the fire of punishment" of the damned!

Again, another popular passage with the sentimentalists is the following from St. Isaac the Syrian: "The man who chooses to consider God as an avenger, presuming that [in this manner] he bears witness to His justice, the same accuses Him of being bereft of goodness. Far be it, that in that Fountain of Love and Ocean brimming with goodness, vengeance could ever be found!" And again: "I also maintain that those who are punished in Gehenna are scourged by the scourge of love. Nay, what is so bitter and vehement as the torment of love? I mean that those who have become conscious that they have sinned against love suffer greater torment thereby than by any fearsome punishment which can be conceived."

But can it be that this great saint is saying of those sacred writers of the Old and New Testaments who speak of the vengeance of God - and almost all of them do! - that they are accusing God of being "bereft of goodness"?! Of course not! St. Isaac is simply making the point that we must not understand the vengeance of God in an anthopomorphic way, as if God had fallen human passions and was satisfying an emotional need "to get his own back". That would indeed be a blasphemous thought and a denial of the goodness of God. On the contrary: God both in His love and in His vengeance acts with a "passionless passion", with a serene objectivity that is as far above the human passions we associate with those words as heaven is from earth.

Again, when St. Isaac says that the sinners in Gehenna are being scourged with the scourge of love, he is not denying that this scourge is at the same time a scourge of wrath and vengeance (understood, it should now go without saying, in a Divine, and not a human way), and felt as such by the sinners. He is simply pointing out that the greatest punishment of all is to be deprived of the experience of God's love, which we call His grace. And that the greatest torment of conscience we can experience is the knowledge that we have sinned against Him Who loves us infinitely more than any other.

If the sentimentalists confined themselves to pointing out the limitations of human language in speaking about the Divine, and the need to ascend above the fallen aspects of those realities signified by such words as "love", "wrath" and "vengeance", then they would be doing us a service. But in approving "good" words such as "love", and in censuring "bad" ones such as "vengeance", they are actually showing that they know the real scriptural meaning of neither. For true, Divine love, far from dispensing with justice, pursues it with an insatiable zeal. The truly loving father chastizes his erring son, and the truly loving bridegroom will give his own life to save his bride from sin and death. God Himself has given us the perfect example: the Father in His love for man, in His zeal for the righteousness (= sinlessness, justice) of man, gave His Only Begotten Son as a perfect Sacrifice for sin. Only through the restoration of justice by the destruction of sin, which is God's vengeance on the devil and all his works, could the relationship of love between God and man be renewed. Thus the Cross, as we have seen, is perfect love in pursuit of perfect justice.

Another argument of the sentimentalists hinges on the meaning of the word "justice". According to Kalomiros, the Greek work dikaiosyne, "justice", is a translation of the Hebrew tsedaka, which means "the Divine energy that accomplishes the salvation of man". "This term," he writes, "is parallel and almost synonymous with the words hesed (pity, compassion, love) and emeth (faithfulness, truth). This is a quite different conception of justice..."

But is it? Even if we accept the conjectural Hebrew word rather than the word chosen by the Holy Spirit in the Greek Septuagint, the only version of the Old Testament Scriptures which has the unequivocal seal of Divine inspiration, there is surely no contradiction here with the usual meaning of the word "justice". "The Divine energy that accomplishes the salvation of man" pursues this end through the restoration of a state of sinlessness and justice in man's relationship to God. Sin upset the balance in this relationship, almost destroying it completely. This balance is restored through the destruction of sin: on the part of God, by His perfect Sacrifice and propitiation for the sins of all men, and on the part of man by tears of repentance and good works carried out for the love of God and neighbour.

For as Metropolitan Philaret of New York writes: "This is the complete type of justice - the justice of the Christian heart. Its basic, wise, clear and comprehensible principle is expressed in the Gospel by the words: 'So then, whatever you wish that others would do to you, even so do you also to them" (Matthew 7.12). And the apostles' council repeated this in a negative form: 'do not do to others what you do not wish done to yourself'."

Thus love and justice may be seen as the positive and negative poles respectively of the same Divine energy. Love is the natural, that is, just relationship between God and man created by the Divine energy. Sin has destroyed love and created injustice. The Divine energy therefore acts to destroy injustice and restore love. We would not need to speak of justice if sin had not destroyed it. But with the entrance of sin, justice is the first necessity - love demands it...

But what if the Divine energy fails to save man, because of the hardness of man's heart and his impenitent love of injustice? Must the Divine energy then return to its source, like the rays of the sun from off a cold, dark object? By no means; for "so shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth: it shall not return to Me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and prosper in the thing for which I sent it" (Isaiah 55.11). And if the word of God does not accomplish its purpose in redeeming a man, it will nevertheless accomplish it in rewarding him according to his works. And thus will justice be done...

"In this respect," writes St. Dionysius the Areopagite, "the Divine Justice is really true justice because it distributes to all the things proper to themselves, according to the fitness of each existing thing, and preserves the nature of each in its own order and fitness... the nature of each in its own order and capacity."

Thus "with the holy man wilt Thou be holy, and with the innocent man wilt Thou be innocent. And with the elect wilt Thou be elect, and with the perverse wilt Thou be perverse" (Psalm 17.25-26). For that is what they have chosen to do, and God never violates the freewill of man. Thus we must "so speak and so act as those are to be judged under the law of liberty. For judgement is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy" (James 2.12-13). To suppose that God is loving but not just, that He gives the Divine Light of the Kingdom to the saints but not the fiery darkness of Gehenna to the sinners, is like saying that the sun gives light but does not burn. It is contrary to the nature of things.

And if the sentimentalists say that the sinner has judged himself, rather than been judged by God, we have no objection to this - if it is meant that the sinner, rather than God, is ultimately responsible for his condemnation because of his own freely willed blindness and impenitence.

But at the same time this must not be understood to mean that God remains entirely passive. For while He wills that all be saved, and does everything to save them, it is still His decision that puts a limit, through death, to the time for repentance (Psalm 6.4), and His word that sends the incorrigibly impenitent to Gehenna (Matthew 25.41).

St. John of Damascus strikes the balance well: "A judge justly punishes one who is guilty of wrongdoing; and if he does not punish him he is himself a wrongdoer. In punishing him the judge is not the cause either of the wrongdoing or of the vengeance taken against the wrongdoer, the cause being the wrongdoer's freely chosen actions. Thus too God, Who saw what was going to happen as if it had already happened, judged it as if it had taken place; and if it was evil, that was the cause of its being punished. It was God Who created man, so of course he created him in goodness; but man did evil of his own free choice, and is himself the cause of the vengeance that overtakes him."

Thus the Last, Most Terrible Judgement is a mystery proclaimed by the Word of God and grounded in the deepest reality of things. It both proceeds from the nature of God Himself, and is an innate demand of our human nature created in the image of God. It is the essential foundation for the practice of virtue and the abhorrence of vice, and the ultimate goal to which the whole of created nature strives, willingly or unwillingly, as to its natural fulfilment. Without it all particular judgements would have a partial and unsatisfactory character, and the reproaches of Job against God, and of all unbelievers against faith, would be justified. And if the Last Judgement is different from all preceding ones in that in it love seems to be separated from justice, love being distributed exclusively to the righteous and justice to the sinners, then this is because human nature itself will have divided itself in two, one part having responded to love with love, to justice with justice, while the other, having rejected both the love and the justice of God, will merit to experience His justice alone...

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