LOL! "latins" are specifically referred to as such by such Fathers as St. Photios the Great and St. Gregory Palamas and St. Mark Evgenikos...
R
And yes they are heretics and their baptisms are not valid. Moreover, they are neither Roman nor Catholic. Fr. John Romanides could explain. FRANKS, ROMANS & FEUDALISM.
Nikodemus wrote:If an orthodox priest baptised me with sprinkling I would have to receive this mystery again in a valid form. This should also be the case if I knew the priest or bishop to be a heretic.
You are thinking as catholics. The question is not about validity which is catholic words but about Grace. Does such baptism provide Grace?
In many Orthodox countries, in the past decades people were baptized with 3 pouring of water... Are you going to tell they were not Orthodox. If you look at imagery in the Orthodox occident, you can see very small baptismal fonts because people used to stand in and many water was poured...
Moreother, you thinking entirely forgets that we are given chrismation and communion later, and these mysteries can give the Grace that such baptism would not have according to your opinion... That is why it is entirely possible to receive a Christian heterodox by chrismation only as stated in the Canons. One Orthodox mystery is enough to give life to the dead previous mysteries.
Really, you are entirely in Donatism...
Priidite, poklonimsja i pripadem ko Hristu.
joasia wrote:If a priest cannot even perform the FIRST Holy Mystery properly, then how incompetent will he be with the other six?
Latin theology. The priest does not perform a mystery, it is the Holy Spirit who does this!!! The "in persona christi" is Latin Theology...
Priidite, poklonimsja i pripadem ko Hristu.
Chrismation is a means of economy. The rite should be regularized as soon as possible. Let's sum it with one question? If Baptism is rebirth in the BODY OF CHRIST, how can it occur outside of it?! Viz. in heterodox confessions?! Read I CONFESS ONE BAPTISM.
R
So Kollyvas,I relate a story of a reightous and very well read man ..
when the Angels that were present with the Priest, Deacon,and accolytes at the altar became JOYFUL it was because they foresaw a bit of what was to come and so they rejoiced because he was passing by ,the angels thought he was about to enter church and be attentive to the greatest mystery on earth, and then they see he kept walking by shakeing his head in disgrace of what he just walked by an Orthodox church that didnt meet his human authority ,because it is under a certain church jurisdiction..and so this man has missed the Services of the church that the holy Fathers and Martys have stressed of there importance and how we shouls be there and attentive, but this man has been given a worldly view of what the Church that Belongs to God should follow and he also preaches that those inside these so called orthodox churche including the bishop, priest and the children he has Baptised in the Name of the Father and of The Son and of The Holy Spirit for many years are not valid Christians in the world`s eyes,...now the angels are sorrowed that this man has been led astray to such idle talk and follower of Mans own destruction "the RULE", for he has preached not what Christ has taught us,but that of which man has taught him-
to judge is to fall, and to fall means one will have to look up when he tries get up.............
Latin theology. The priest does not perform a mystery, it is the Holy Spirit who does this!!! The "in persona christi" is Latin Theology...
I don't know anything about Latin theology. So relax, okay. The word "perform" does not imply that the priest is making the mystery happen, okay? The priest is a tool and the Holy Spirit works through the tool. But, the Holy Spirit can choose not to descend on an action such as baptism if it is done against It. Elder Paisios expressed it, himself and he was given the gift of prophesy.
Joanna
Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. (Ps. 50)
