ROCOR and MOSCOW PATRIARCH

pjhatala · Post by **pjhatala** » Fri 7 October 2005 10:11 am

Nikodemus wrote:
Edward and others

I guess I have to repeat myself again to make this point clear. The present Patriarchate in MP is mostly uncanonical. The canons state that only a synod of bishops can choose a patriarch and the point is that this synod never took place in the case of Patriarch Sergej. And all his successors must therefore too be in this state and especially so when they come from Sergej and the rennovationist Church. The russian church exists in Russia, it is ROAC.

The canons aren't some mystical law unto themselves which have reign over the Church. The Church created the canons, the Church controls the canons. They are guiding principles, not a new venue by which to become pharisees. The entire alphabet soup of jurisdictions in America and Western Europe is completely uncanonical too- does that mean there is no Grace? no Church in these places?

pjhatala · Post by **pjhatala** » Fri 7 October 2005 12:09 pm

Edward wrote:
When the Tikhvin Icon was returned to Russia, they had a procession from Christ the Saviour Cathedral to Red Square. The ceremonies lasted for hours.

What a sight that was! I didn't follow the procession, but was waiting across from the Iveron chapel when the procession came to Red Square. Truly amazing.

Also, I agree with most of your other points.

Priest Siluan · Post by **Priest Siluan** » Fri 7 October 2005 12:12 pm

pjhatala wrote:
The canons aren't some mystical law unto themselves which have reign over the Church. The Church created the canons, the Church controls the canons. They are guiding principles, not a new venue by which to become pharisees. The entire alphabet soup of jurisdictions in America and Western Europe is completely uncanonical too- does that mean there is no Grace? no Church in these places?

Is this also for the initials OCA, ROCOR-L, GOAA etc... and others Orthodox Jurisdictions in (of) America and Wester Europe?

pjhatala · Post by **pjhatala** » Fri 7 October 2005 12:14 pm

Priest Siluan wrote:
pjhatala wrote:
The canons aren't some mystical law unto themselves which have reign over the Church. The Church created the canons, the Church controls the canons. They are guiding principles, not a new venue by which to become pharisees. The entire alphabet soup of jurisdictions in America and Western Europe is completely uncanonical too- does that mean there is no Grace? no Church in these places?

Is this also for the initials OCA, ROCOR-L, GOAA etc... and others Orthodox Jurisdictions in (of) America and Wester Europe?

Yes. They are in violation of the canons by virtue of their having more than one bishop present in a city. This doesn't mean they're graceless though.