Archbishop GREGORY of Denver and Colorado

[TomS]

The whole issue of theft only came about because you would not return the monastery keys and credit card. If you go to work anywhere in the world, and they give you keys to their building, a company credit card, and uniforms, and you later decide to quit or are asked to leave, they are going to want those things back. It's their property, not yours.

CORRECT!

And Yes, Nathanial -- it IS just lke General Motors. You are a Monk AT WILL, just as an employee is an employee AT WILL. If they want you to leave - you MUST give back the community's property.

Furthermore, no novice or monk owns ANYTHING. Period. All is held in common. It has always been like that from the beginning of monasticism. Why should you be any different? What makes you so special that only you own things, but none of the rest of us own anything? How could you possibly take a vow of poverty with that kind of mindset?

CORRECT! As a monk of in a Monastery YOU OWN NOTHING. The COMMUNITY owns it - and your superior can decide to expel you at will.

Did you miss class the day this was taught in MONK101 ??!!!

ANYBODY KNOWS THIS! Why do you act so surprised?

POST SCRIPT - Father Peter Wheeler continued to affirm that I "left him no other choice" but to call in the Police and have me jailed.

And based upon his letter to you, and your rebuttal's, I COMPLETELY agree with him.

You SHOULD have fallen to your knees and asked forgiveness and submitted. But your PRIDE kicked in.

You should have submitted.
You should have submitted.
You should have submitted.
You should have submitted.
You should have submitted.
You should have submitted.
You should have submitted.
You should have submitted.

You should write a letter to him and admit that you were wrong.

You are not cut out to be a Monk, my friend. You are way too prideful.

[尼古拉前执事]

Dear Subdeacon Nathaniel,

The cafe forum members are giving you advice out of caring and not mailce, I have spoken to a number of them recently, and have known many of them for years and would ask that you receive their advice meekly and with the loving intent they are offering it. They are not your enemies, these are your brothers and sisters in Christ. No need to be so defensive. If you disagree with the advice iffered, just cinsider it, paray about it, say thank you and move on.

[Nathaniel Kapner]

Dearest Toms,

The much-suffering Job once responded to his attacker Zophar, "Those who are at ease, have contempt for the troubled."

Now my dearest attacker and stone-thrower TOMS, the cassock that I was wearing is my consecration unto my Christ, as well as my clerical robe. I, unlike you, have nothing to do with "the uncircumcized and unclean" of whom I was demanded to turn my 'consecration robe' sprinkled with holy water, over to.

You evince a complete ignorance of the holy furniture and holy vestments of the priesthood as specified thoughout Exodus, Leviticus, and Numbers. I have studied these books since childhood for I was raised on the Old Testament in Judaism.

Perhaps the best way for you to allieve your animosity towards me, is to unobstruct your logged-vision, and forsake your constant pounding of a speck into mine.

Yours for The Holy Church of the New Martys of Russia,

Sbn Nathaniel Kapner (itw- Milton L Kapner, Leadville CO)

[Nathaniel Kapner]

Dear Deacon Nikolai,

I do not find any love from these neophytes and heterodox who have made themselves my 'advisors.'

A few have been kind and offered consolation, such as Priest Siluan , (whom I have continual correspondence with), and Priest Mark of ROCIE. I have 'my advisors,' apart from this List. Many wise priests and wise men and women have contacted me OFF LIST, both from your Cafe as well as from Paradosis. I have even been contacted from priests, bishops, and faithful from Greece and other over-seas nations.

I seek no advice from people that I do not know, nor know me, until a level of trust has been established.

Let them read the posts, absorb it. comment on it, but their malicious remarks, I eschew.

Yours for Christ my Lord and Savior,

Sbn Nathaniel

[CGW]

Dear Deacon Nikolai,

I do not find any love from these neophytes and heterodox who have made themselves my 'advisors.'

Then let me be blunt, and offer observations, not advice. (Oh-- and I don't count direct commands from Jesus as "advice".)

The rest of us have watched the shenanegans around Gregory for some years now. And now you appear with these long (and in the context of a forum, inappropriate) screeds against Gregory. What response did you expect? What response did you want? We do not need to denounce Gregory with you, because we have all denounced him without you. When we read your screeds, we perhaps learned a bit about the skete, but we learned far more about you and perhaps about those whose advice you heed. I frankly was surprised to discover that you are a decade older than myself, because your writing does not show it.

If you do not want public responses, the only thing to do is to quit speaking in public. As for private advice, it is impossible for me to imagine that you are not hearing in private some of what we are saying in public.

I frankly do not find malice in the remarks made here-- except for yours. Your words signify hurt to Gregory, hurt to the priest, and hurt to the skete. What we say is unpleasant, but it is not malicious.

[StephenG]

In offering advice I wrote as one who is an Orthodox Christian of many decades. But one who posts here presumes an awful without even checking his facts. I am not offended but worried and feel the Moderators should put an end to this, for the spiritual welfare of one who is troubled and for the sake of others.

[尼古拉前执事]

Now that Subdeacon Nathaniel has been able to tell the complete side of his story and people have been able to give him advice, and since the thread has become one where people are feeling that they are being attacked on both sides, I hereby will lock this thread, feeling thatn no more good will come from it and also allowing us all to move on from this delicate topic, but allowing the thread to remain should anyone wish to see Subdeacon Nathaniel's side to the story and the advice he was given.