Who supports the household?

[Logos]

I agree 100% that moms should stay home with their kids. But once the kids are a little older (like high school age), I think it's reasonable for women to go back to their careers if they wish, especially if it's a job with reasonable hours, such as teaching.

One may argue that if a woman has the skills and talents to be a great scientist, doctor or senator, why shouldn't she?

Rebecca

That is a good point Rebecca. If anything, I think women have more career flexibility then men. By that I mean, a woman can stay at home, and if she wants to when the children are older, find a job. A man does not really have this option available.

P.S. Are you a physicist? I am a biologist.

[Justin Kissel]

Let's suppose that one fully accepts and values traditional gender roles/duties. Now let's suppose that one also wants to home school their kids, and refused to public school them (and can't afford to private/church school them). Let's further suppose that the husband is educated and a good teacher, while the mother has little education and can't teach very well (e.g., she gets frustrated and gives up if someone doesn't automatically understand what she is trying to teach). Let's also suppose that either the Mother or the Father could work Full Time and get the bills paid, so that either could stay at home with the child(ren). What wins out: gender roles and traditional values, or the education and purity of the children?

Someone might say "but the scenario you give is not one that happens often". That's hardly the point though. Do doctors ignore learning things that only happen rarely? I'm asking a question not because I want to take the answer to it (if it is to my liking) and apply it generally to everyone: certainly this would be dishonest. I'm speaking very narrowly here: if a family is in the exactly position described above--and such a position would be rare, but not impossible, to be in--which is the better course? Computer programmers test using "extreme" variables, to make sure a program is stable and won't crash. I'm doing that here: I'm using an admittedly rare variable, but I want to see how the program (the participants) respond. Can they adapt to the unexpected circumstances? or are they trapped within the confines of their rigid, general programming?

[Daniel]

Let's suppose that one fully accepts and values traditional gender roles/duties. Now let's suppose that one also wants to home school their kids, and refused to public school them (and can't afford to private/church school them). Let's further suppose that the husband is educated and a good teacher, while the mother has little education and can't teach very well (e.g., she gets frustrated and gives up if someone doesn't automatically understand what she is trying to teach). Let's also suppose that either the Mother or the Father could work Full Time and get the bills paid, so that either could stay at home with the child(ren). What wins out: gender roles and traditional values, or the education and purity of the children?

Someone might say "but the scenario you give is not one that happens often". That's hardly the point though. Do doctors ignore learning things that only happen rarely? I'm asking a question not because I want to take the answer to it (if it is to my liking) and apply it generally to everyone: certainly this would be dishonest. I'm speaking very narrowly here: if a family is in the exactly position described above--and such a position would be rare, but not impossible, to be in--which is the better course? Computer programmers test using "extreme" variables, to make sure a program is stable and won't crash. I'm doing that here: I'm using an admittedly rare variable, but I want to see how the program (the participants) respond. Can they adapt to the unexpected circumstances? or are they trapped within the confines of their rigid, general programming?

This would definitely be an exception to the rule, but I think there are several different ways to handle this situation, mainly through varying work/teaching schedules.

Worst case (for the utter lack of a better term) would be the Father working 2nd or 3rd shift (assuming this is an option) and teaching the children. Being home schooled “class” time could be very flexible and I think you might be able to get more done in a shorter amount of time.

Both Mother and Father can work part time and the Father teaches the child(ren), with the Mother filling the rest of the role of housewife. A variation of this could be that both working and teaching can be shared between Mother and Father each according to their abilities.

I did have one more solution, but had to go and then forgot it, please forgive me. But none-the-less, I do think this solution is workable, though it may (or most likely would) require some sacrificing by both Mother and Father.

-Daniel

[Liudmilla]

Forgive me, but some of you gentlement are to hung up in that "socialized role/gender" thing.

Just because traditional roles are out there, does not mean that they are absolutely workable. For a father to stay home and the wife to work...especially if she earns more...is really no big thing. I've known several Orthodox gentlemen who found themselves in such a position. Some had jobs from home, others took the role of a Mr. Mom... None that I know of felt their masculinity threatened.

Each of us, instead of playing the role game, should rather look to see how they can best maximize the benefits to the children and not their own egos. Face it, much of what we consider "roles" are nothing more than the socializations from a society's views anyway. My father was as Orthodox as you can be, but when it happened that he couldn't work anymore, he stayed home with the kids and my mom went to support the family. He never complained about the role "reversal". On the contrary he taught us to respect the roles that were necessary for survival of the family.

[Myrrhbearer]

Sorry if I am bringing back a very dated post, but I have a question...which I am discussing with my priest, my husband, and others...but I guess I am looking for a broad response.

I am well aware of our present day workings, how women are viewed, et al. We are living in a post-Christian era. In the U.S. most households are not necessarily following Christian Tradition.

In the Orthodox Church there is a definite order-a hierarchy. ...Patriarch, Bishops, ......Priests....laity.

It is also quite clear that there is a hierarchy given in the Bible in regards to men and women once in a married state. This can be found in both the Old and New testament. Women are to be helpmeets.

The Bible talks about women not teaching in the church....not teaching men. The Bible speaks of older women teaching younger women....their is their teaching role...helping them to be obedient to their husbands, helping them raise their children....

Beyond women covering their heads in worship, which is a physical sign that she understands this hierarchy, and is in humility accepting it, and women not being ordained, women not wearing men's clothing....what are some other things written on the traditional role of women that the church gives us? Just because society ordains something...or sets forth "the way everyone is doing it" doesn't make it right. What do the FATHERS (HOLY Fathers) of the Church have to say on this? What is the TRADITION?

joanna

[joasia]

Hello Sister Myrr-bearer,

I have a book called: On Marriage and Family Life" written by St. John Chrysostom. It's been awhile since I read it, but he explains the Orthodox tradition of a women and men in the family life and if you can't trust St. John, then who can you trust, right?

Some points are difficult to accept because of our views in this society, but it is the way God wants us to be in a family. So if you can find it, perhaps it can help you.

Joanna

[DavidHawthorne]

In my family, I am the Provider (although two months umemployed [Glory to God for all things]) but I think the children's welfare is the priority in the question of who is the Bread-Winner. Through which spouse are the children's temporal needs better provided for? But then again, "A woman, if she maintain her husband, is full of anger, impudence, and much reproach." Ecclus. 25:22 It seems permissible for the woman to be the primary bread-winner in necessity but, since it is against nature, rare is the couple that can make it work in a God-pleasing manner.