Death & dying

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Maria
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Post by Maria »

TomS wrote:

I don't think it is any different than normal.

Maybe not here, but on the other three boards I visited, people were really attacking each other.

The discord was very noticeable. And with the insertion of a feeding tube into the Pope's nose and his critical condition due to a urinary tract infection, the Protestants were attacking Catholics and vice versa. Terri dies and the Pope has a feeding tube inserted. It has not been a very pleasant day.

Plus the U.S. Census 2005 was delivered to millions of Americans (including our household). We received a huge thick envelope containing a 24 page questionnaire -- I wasn't a happy camper either.

Pray!

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

Miriam
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Post by Miriam »

The sad fact of life is that we live and then we die. The nature of our death determined by the nature or sinfulness of our life. We cannot always know why someone had to die in the manner they did, we can only pray for them.

As to discord..... well it is Great Lent .... having been around for awhile I have noticed that during this time there is always a greater amount of discord. And we seem to be the most suseptible to it. That is why I believe many step away from such fora .... to concentrate on their souls and the meaning of lent.

As for Terri.... Her soul was trapped in a dead body and the world would not let her go. What was done to her was a travesty, a circus and her parent should be ashamed of themselves. As for her husband.... we are not his judges...but the burden he took upon himself in releasing Terri is not light. It is something he will have to live with all his life .... believe me I went through it and I still question whether I did the right thing.

Mira

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Reader Benjamin
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Post by Reader Benjamin »

I don't know alot about Terri's situation. I have been told that she was not on any life support and that she did not even need the feeding tube, but she did need someone to feed her. The judge ordered that she not be feed and the tube removed. In other words she had been starved to death willfully, all in the name of letting her die in peace.

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TomS
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Post by TomS »

Reader Benjamin wrote:

I don't know alot about Terri's situation. I have been told that she was not on any life support and that she did not even need the feeding tube, but she did need someone to feed her.

You are right - you know nothing about the situation.

----------------------------------------------------
They say that I am bad news. They say "Stay Away."

Ekaterina
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Post by Ekaterina »

As with any issue there are always two sides to every story, and most especially in the Terri Schiavo case. I read several sites for news stories and it never ceases to amaze me how the same facts are presented in such differing and biased views. The thing that remains at the forefront is that there was a feud…. a very long and often vicious feud. I’m sure that not even the Schindlers or the Schiavos know how it escalated that far or that badly.

Life and death decision are not easy and they carry a heavy weight.

A few years ago I took care of a woman I used to call Aunt. She was a childless widow, about 82 years old and a semi-invalid. Normally a “nice” woman, as she got older a sort a meanness began to appear about her. (I have a theory about that, but it is not germane to my story). For a number of years after her husband died, and while someone lived with her to take care of her, she was fine, but then she decided that she wanted to be alone and there was nothing we could do to persuade do otherwise. Of course her health declined because she did not eat regularly in the course of a day.

Fortunately for us, not long after her husband died, she set up a living will, health care proxy and power of attorney. She named me as her spokes person.

One night she fell and broke her hip. It took her most of the night to crawl to the phone. Unfortunately her break was in a place where it had to heal by itself, it could not be fixed. Because of the pain she was in, she would not move and because she would not move her arthritic joints began to atrophy and because she would not move she developed a bed sore and pneumonia. In addition she absolutely hated the hospital food and would not eat further weakening her system. To make matters worse, she learned that the hospital would not let her go home but that she would only be released into a nursing home. This sent her into a deep depression and she began to lose her desire to live. Her food intake dropped even lower and she lost even more weight. She was nothing but skin and bones. Her visitor’s began to say that I was starving her and created all kinds of difficulty for me with the hospital.

Her medical condition was worsening. She was not allowed regular water because she was aspirating it into her lungs. All she could have was a sort of shake (consistency of a milk shake) or jello, both of which she hated with a passion. She wanted water even though it could have drowned her. At this point the doctor wanted to insert a feeding tube. My aunt had become confused and couldn’t remember anything from hour to hour. The doctor felt that if we could get her healthy, she would get better and my aunt would regain her desire for life. Now, I had to decide how to best deal with this situation. I knew she did not want tubes of any kind, but I was also mad at her because based on all Orthodox teachings she was in effect committing suicide by not eating. I approached our priest for help, he came and confessed her and gave her communion.

It was decided to try a tube through her nose. The “food” did not agree with her. She returned it in full measure every time. Three days later we came to the stage of deciding to tube or not. I did not know what to do, so I dumped it in our priest’s lap and asked under church teaching what do I do? He had no answers and so he went to the bishop. The bishop came back with…. Don’t force her to do what she doesn’t want to do. She had attained the aged that God gave man, and a few more to boot… let nature take it’s course. Terri Schiavo was lucky that it only took her two weeks; my aunt took seven weeks to starve herself. In the end we couldn’t even get a quarter of a pound of food into her. Picture the container you get at the deli for ¼ lb.

We got the word that she would not last much longer at about 4AM on a Sunday moring. I did not have a Psalter, but I grabbed my prayer book and my mother and I went to the hospital. I started to read every Canon in my book, At about six my mother returned home to get ready for church and I continued with the prayers. She took her last breath at the end of the canon for repentance. I cannot express the feelings I had. I called my mother to tell her and my aunt was immediately prayed for at the great Entrance. Talk about timing!

To this day and it’s been five years…I think of her often. Would I want to be put in this situation again? The answer is no, the probability is yes I will probably have to do this again sometime in the future. I pray for a swift painless death for everyone. But I take comfort in the fact that a painful death, a slow death is a blessing because you get to pay for some of your sinfulness here. In this life.

Katya

Hexapsalms
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how far we have progressed...

Post by Hexapsalms »

If the pollsters are right in saying that the MAJORITY of Christians had favored removing Terri's feeding tube (would this number include the Orthodox?), then we are not far from a "humane holocaust", such as was propogated in the 1930's and 1940's Germany in their euthanasia centers, which was later transferred and applied to the death camps.

What would stop this slide into this mindset now if we Christians cannot grasp what's at stake? "Freedom of choice" rules in our culture and is enthroned as the god of our times. The glaring question in this case was whose choice was exercised? Terri's supposed "choice" was based on hear-say evidence from her husband who was clearly conflicted (having now a common-law wife and two children)--but Terri's choice was not proved. Terri Schiavo was not dying at the time of the feeding tube removal--she was severely impaired which is a huge difference. The courts dodged their responsibility on the question of justice and erred on the side of strict legalities ( which was politically safe for them). They ruled according to the strict letter of the law that Michael Schiavo was the legal guardian and being such, only he could decide for Terri. This is a prime example of how "the law kills" as Christ said, whereas the spirit would give life.

An Allied doctor who was present at the Nuremburg trials wrote an article for the July 14, 1949 issue in the New England Journal of Medicine, saying this about the change in attitude that led to Nazi eugenics, euthanasia, and the death camps:

"Whatever proportion these crimes finally assumed, it became evident to all who investigated them that they had started from small beginnings. The beginnings at first were merely a subtle shift in emphasis in the basic attitudes of the physicians. It started with the acceptance of the attitude, basic in the euthanasia movement, that there is such a thing as life not worthy to be lived. This attitude in its early stages concerned itself merely with the severely and chronically sick. Gradually, the sphere of those to be included in this category was enlarged to encompass the socially unproductive, the ideologically unwanted, the racially unwanted, and finally all non-Germans. But it is important to realize that the infinitely small wedged-in lever from which the entire trend of mind received its impetus was the attitude towards the non-rehabilitative sick."

read it all--

http://www.chninternational.com/leo_alexander_.htm

"A life not worthy to be lived." Now what shall we based this judgement about a worthy life upon? Someone in a wheelchair? Someone who is poor and living in a rat-infested hovel? Someone who is horribly deformed like the Elephant man? A Helen Keller, who could not see, hear or speak to make her choices easily knowable? Shall we congratulate Michael Schiavo, his right-to-die lawyer Felos, the courts for their compassion to judge Terri's life as worthless? What kind of compassion is this? Who is it really serving?

We have now a society that eliminates inconvenient babies, is beginning (in several Western countries, most notably Holland) to eliminate inconvenient elderly, and now targeting inconvenient disabled. Who's safe anymore?

The business that's being spread the the Schindlers have made a public circus out of a private family is a convenient fiction. Terri Schiavo case became a public matter the minute it went to the courts, where it must become part of the public record. Too bad the poor disabled Germans under Hitler couldn't leave a public record--eventually so many perished suspiciously that the victims' German relatives and the Archbishop of Munich took to the streets to protest, forcing the euthanasia program to stop. But the twisted mindset had already permeated society so much that even these protests didn't stop the practice altogether--it merely went underground to "compassionately" kill more disabled, and many euthanasia medical staff transferred East to Auschwitz, Treblinka, etc. to carry on their sacred utopian work to make the earth free of misery, suffering and deformity.

Miriam
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Post by Miriam »

Hexapsalms:

I pray that God spares you the agony of ever having to make a life and death decisionfor a loved one. You do not have the faith or strength for it.

Mira

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